Indication of male baby preference in Europe
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Mustapaita
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RE: Indication of male baby preference in Europe
(2013 Oct 13 15:45)Kristel Wrote:  I don't think the motivation for having an abortion is irrelevant.

E.g. a girl who wants an abortion because she's only 15 years old, a woman who has been raped or a poor woman already given birth to more children than her family can ever afford to feed have more urgent needs for an abortion than those who want one only because the child has the wrong gender.

It's the same with motivations for suicide. I think e.g. a person diagnosed with incurable cancer and with only half a year full of pain left to live, all the time depending on the help of others, has more of a right to end his own life than someone who's healthy.

Surely few people think that the motivation is irrelevant, but if it truly is about the woman's right to choose as it supposedly is according to feminists/leftists/progressives, then the motivation does seem quite irrelevant.

Which is why its funny to see them contradict themselves as soon as the woman free to choose makes her choice for the wrong (i.e. anti-egalitarian) reasons. Tongue

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2013 Oct 13 15:53
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W. R.
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RE: Indication of male baby preference in Europe
(2013 Oct 13 06:26)Zephyr Wrote:  I see gender quotas for abortion arriving anytime soon.

Rather laws forbidding fetal sex determination will be enforced.

[...] just as it is not left unto us to choose our ancestors, so we may not choose our nation; we can only fulfil, or not fulfil, the obligations that come from being a member of our people’.
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2013 Oct 13 18:04
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RE: Indication of male baby preference in Europe


2013 Oct 13 18:41
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RE: Indication of male baby preference in Europe
(2013 Oct 12 15:59)Mustapaita Wrote:  Yes, that's what's puzzled me. If it truly is "pro-choice", why question motives?

I think it is perfectly legitimate to allow abortion in some cases, and not in others. The classic cases are usually ones where the pregnancy endangers the mother's life or health, or cases of incest or rape.

I see no cognitive dissonance at all in allowing abortion in cases X, Z and W, but not in cases A, B and C.

I like to look at the human self-model as a neurocomputational weapon, a certain data structure that the brain can activate from time to time.

Thomas Metzinger
2013 Oct 18 21:20
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RE: Indication of male baby preference in Europe
(2013 Oct 18 21:20)Eldritch Wrote:  
(2013 Oct 12 15:59)Mustapaita Wrote:  Yes, that's what's puzzled me. If it truly is "pro-choice", why question motives?

I think it is perfectly legitimate to allow abortion in some cases, and not in others. The classic cases are usually ones where the pregnancy endangers the mother's life or health, or cases of incest or rape.

I see no cognitive dissonance at all in allowing abortion in cases X, Z and W, but not in cases A, B and C.

You forget the premise: "woman's choice" "her body her decision".

What she decides is what happens. If the woman is free to chose, she is free to do so for any motive.

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2013 Oct 19 04:19
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RE: Indication of male baby preference in Europe
^ Oh, right. Point taken.

Well, the people who want to mollycoddle problematic groups of immigrants will always resolve any ideological conflicts so that the "rights" of the problematic group (i.e. the demands of the social pathology which makes it problematic in the first place) take precedence over the rights of any particular individual who belongs to that group. I very much doubt that, if these cases were to become common, abortion based on the ender of the fetus were to be disallowed.

I like to look at the human self-model as a neurocomputational weapon, a certain data structure that the brain can activate from time to time.

Thomas Metzinger
2013 Oct 19 08:18
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RE: Indication of male baby preference in Europe
(2013 Oct 13 18:04)Whiteruthenian Wrote:  
(2013 Oct 13 06:26)Zephyr Wrote:  I see gender quotas for abortion arriving anytime soon.

Rather laws forbidding fetal sex determination will be enforced.

All of a sudden that sounds awfully possible.

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2013 Oct 19 09:40
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W. R.
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RE: Indication of male baby preference in Europe
(2013 Oct 19 09:40)Zephyr Wrote:  All of a sudden that sounds awfully possible.

China, India and South Korea already did it.

[...] just as it is not left unto us to choose our ancestors, so we may not choose our nation; we can only fulfil, or not fulfil, the obligations that come from being a member of our people’.
© Dr. Jan Stankievič ‘From the History of Belarus’

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2013 Oct 19 19:04
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RE: Indication of male baby preference in Europe
(2013 Oct 12 15:53)Violet Wrote:  I don't understand the negative reaction of those who fly the pro-choice banner, but balk at sex-selective abortion (the Center for Reproductive Rights and their disdain for China's policies comes to mind).

If one accepts that choosing to end a human life is a "right," then the motivation for doing so should be irrelevant.

???

I've always thought that, generally, pro-choice supporters are mainly for two basic things: legal and safe abortion. Nothing more, nothing less. And that's why I am pro-choice. Maybe that label is wrong or misleading, as I consider separating people in those two groups (pro-choice/pro-life) is rather odd. In the end it comes to two groups who want either abortion prohibited or legal.

I've never met a pro-choice person who is a supporter of women having full right to get any amount of abortions she wants without any kind of moral consequence. Well, I did once (some very radical feminist), but it's fair to say it is a small minority which usually just makes a lot of noise. In the end, I very much doubt anyone's happy about killing fetuses. Even less so if the sole reason is gender.

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2013 Oct 20 06:46
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RE: Indication of male baby preference in Europe
I am afraid to tell you that the rest of the world is quite unlike Peru, my friend. And what about pro-responsibility instead of pro-choice? Everyone wants right and thinks they are entitled automatically to manna from heaven, but nobody accepts even the slightest obligations or conditions.


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Temples drear where ancients trod,—
Nay, in oaks on woody hill
Lives and moves the German God.

(This post was last modified: 2013 Oct 20 11:58 by Phlegethon.)
2013 Oct 20 09:52
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