Slovenia Gay Adoption Law Rejected In Referendum
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Dussander
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Slovenia Gay Adoption Law Rejected In Referendum
LJUBLJANA, Slovenia -- Slovenians rejected in a national referendum on Sunday a new family law that included a highly contested clause that would allow same-sex couples to adopt children in some cases.

The law drafted by Slovenia's former center-left government – and opposed by conservatives close to the Catholic Church – would have allowed gay couples to adopt the biological children of their partners. It did not allow the adoption of children from a third party.

With 98 percent of the vote counted, about 55 percent of those who took part in the referendum rejected the law, while about 45 supported it, the state referendum commission said. Turnout was low, about 26 percent.

The result meant that the new family law will not be applied and a new one cannot be drafted within a year.

Unlike its Balkan neighbors, Serbia and Croatia – where gays often face verbal and physical abuse – the small Alpine nation and European Union member is relatively tolerant of homosexuality. In 2006, Slovenia allowed official registration of same-sex relationships.

A conservative children rights group collected 42,000 signatures by February to challenge the law in the referendum. It argued that the law is against traditional family values and that gay couples should not be allowed any adoption rights.

Roman Catholic, Serbian Orthodox and Muslim communities in Slovenia also jointly signed a petition before the referendum, asking Slovenes to reject the law.

"Marriage and family are of utmost importance for the development of the human person and society," the petition said. "For this reason, we all have an obligation to protect the values of marriage and of family as a community of a husband and a wife, and children."

Those who argued in favor of the new law said the gay adoption clause has been unfairly thrust into the public focus in the months leading to the referendum, overshadowing other provisions that further protect children rights in general.

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2012 Mar 27 18:50
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Violet
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RE: Slovenia Gay Adoption Law Rejected In Referendum
This is positive.

While I feel homosexuals should be treated with compassion, respect and sensitivity, I have to oppose the legal recognition of homosexual unions or the placing of them on the same level as marriage. The absence of sexual complementarity in a homosexual union would be detrimental to children, and would unfairly deprive them of the experience of fatherhood or motherhood. While homosexual parents might have good intentions, their lifestyle will impact children greatly.
2012 Sep 22 09:37
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RE: Slovenia Gay Adoption Law Rejected In Referendum
Finally some common sense at work in the Balkans.


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Nay, in oaks on woody hill
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2012 Sep 22 11:02
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RE: Slovenia Gay Adoption Law Rejected In Referendum
A child should have one mother and one father, not two mothers or two fathers.

You can't have your cake and eat it too, if you choose a homosexual lifestyle you give up your right of having children.
2012 Sep 22 11:56
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RE: Slovenia Gay Adoption Law Rejected In Referendum
If I read this right, the measure would only have allow someone who already had a child to let the new partner to adopt it so as to provide a level of legal protection. I've seen cases where the original opposite-sex partner was too psychotic to raise a kid and the gay partner has enough mental and financial stability to provide a safe environment.

The law should be flexible enough to allow for individuals directly involved to arrange their own affairs as they see fit without subjecting them to the small-minded impulses of the electorate.
2012 Sep 22 15:41
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RE: Slovenia Gay Adoption Law Rejected In Referendum
I'm interested in long-time psychological studies which prove a childs need for both father and mother, that is, a biological male and female (note: not father and mother figures) for a proper psychosexual development, in order to reinforce arguments on child adoption among homosexual couples being "wrong".

It never occured to me to search for them on my own initiative, as I never had much interest in this particular topic. But in case they do exist, it would be of much help for further discussion to present these papers. Yet if not... all of our personal enlightened opinions are rather useless.

Noone sane plays intentionally dice with children and their childhood.
2012 Sep 22 18:45
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RE: Slovenia Gay Adoption Law Rejected In Referendum
The studies so far are inconclusive as they suffer from sampling problems and the biases of the researchers. There are lots of level-headed people who grew up with two mothers or two fathers, and lots of messed-up individuals raised by a married mother and father. Common sense may have it that a child would do better with a father and a mother, but real-world economic and cultural pressures often make that impossible. I've seen more than a few nationalistic-minded fathers run off and leave the mothers of their babies coping alone. Potential stepfathers shy away from the responsibility of taking care of someone else's offspring. We can condemn those deadbeats as hypocrites, but we cannot deny the reality of that pattern.

Is a child raised by two people of the same sex who share the burdens and sacrifices really all that worse off than one raised by a single mother who must also work for wages?

It is a messed-up world, and if only those in ideal situations can raise children, then do not be surprised if the indigenous European population falls. The state should not interfere with individuals' flexibility to improvise in very non-ideal circumstances.

Hostility towards gays no matter what they do, whether they play promiscuously in parks or whether they settle down in monogamous pairs, whether they are open (flaunting it!) or secretive (root out this hidden evil!) is foolish for any serious political movement including and especially nationalists. Binding a people around organized abusiveness towards a small but inevitable population is simply cruel.
2012 Sep 22 19:21
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RE: Slovenia Gay Adoption Law Rejected In Referendum
(2012 Sep 22 19:21)Loddfafner Wrote:  Hostility towards gays no matter what they do, whether they play promiscuously in parks or whether they settle down in monogamous pairs, whether they are open (flaunting it!) or secretive (root out this hidden evil!) is foolish for any serious political movement including and especially nationalists. Binding a people around organized abusiveness towards a small but inevitable population is simply cruel.

I mostly agree with this, with the exception of the bolded part. I oppose the erosion of the traditional social order, hence I reject the notion that the entire society should change (or become more tolerant/accepting/apathetic) for the sake of a small population. Persecuting this small population is not an option, either.

As regards the subject of gay adoption, I understand pedagogues and child psychologists in my country favour the approach that basically boils down to a working theory (?) that humans build their identities by first identifying with their mothers, and after, in their early adolescence, with their fathers. It seems to me that the dispute here is not only whether such children will develop in a stable environment but whether they will be deliberately denied the opportunity to experience development in the environment deemed potentially most suitable for them.

We must dissent.

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2012 Sep 22 20:14
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RE: Slovenia Gay Adoption Law Rejected In Referendum
(2012 Sep 22 20:14)Dussander Wrote:  
(2012 Sep 22 19:21)Loddfafner Wrote:  Hostility towards gays no matter what they do, whether they play promiscuously in parks or whether they settle down in monogamous pairs, whether they are open (flaunting it!) or secretive (root out this hidden evil!) is foolish for any serious political movement including and especially nationalists. Binding a people around organized abusiveness towards a small but inevitable population is simply cruel.

I mostly agree with this, with the exception of the bolded part. I oppose the erosion of the traditional social order, hence I reject the notion that the entire society should change (or become more tolerant/accepting/apathetic) for the sake of a small population. Persecuting this small population is not an option, either.

The point is that there is a certain mentality that instinctively opposes homosexuality no matter what, without really considering that some alternatives are better than others, and gays logically have to fit in somewhere and preferably not as walking folk devils. Those with this crude mentality, which unfortunately runs rampant and unchecked in nationalist circles, are unable to grasp that there are many ways one can contribute to the health of a nation without literally procreating. The fate of Alan Turing is an extreme but illustrative example.

Actually, the whiners will equally condemn gays for not procreating and for raising children, even within a conventional marriage.

In traditional orders, homosexuality is channeled into the military (especially the navy), monastic orders, and public toilets. Also, there is a long history of local public characters who crossdress. Surely there can be better options for gays in a restored traditional order?
2012 Sep 22 21:19
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RE: Slovenia Gay Adoption Law Rejected In Referendum
(2012 Sep 22 21:19)Loddfafner Wrote:  The point is that there is a certain mentality that instinctively opposes homosexuality no matter what, without really considering that some alternatives are better than others, and gays logically have to fit in somewhere and preferably not as walking folk devils.

Which alternatives?

(2012 Sep 22 21:19)Loddfafner Wrote:  Those with this crude mentality, which unfortunately runs rampant and unchecked in nationalist circles, are unable to grasp that there are many ways one can contribute to the health of a nation without literally procreating.

So not accepting homosexuality is "crude mentality"?
Procreation is one important aspect in national health as Europe is being overrun by those who actually DO procreate and procreate a lot thus taking over bit by bit.

(2012 Sep 22 21:19)Loddfafner Wrote:  Actually, the whiners will equally condemn gays for not procreating and for raising children, even within a conventional marriage.

What?
2012 Sep 22 22:07
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