Slovenia Gay Adoption Law Rejected In Referendum
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Mustapaita
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Post: #21
RE: Slovenia Gay Adoption Law Rejected In Referendum
(2012 Sep 22 19:21)Loddfafner Wrote:  The studies so far are inconclusive as they suffer from sampling problems and the biases of the researchers. There are lots of level-headed people who grew up with two mothers or two fathers, and lots of messed-up individuals raised by a married mother and father. Common sense may have it that a child would do better with a father and a mother, but real-world economic and cultural pressures often make that impossible. I've seen more than a few nationalistic-minded fathers run off and leave the mothers of their babies coping alone. Potential stepfathers shy away from the responsibility of taking care of someone else's offspring. We can condemn those deadbeats as hypocrites, but we cannot deny the reality of that pattern.

Is a child raised by two people of the same sex who share the burdens and sacrifices really all that worse off than one raised by a single mother who must also work for wages?

It is a messed-up world, and if only those in ideal situations can raise children, then do not be surprised if the indigenous European population falls. The state should not interfere with individuals' flexibility to improvise in very non-ideal circumstances.

Hostility towards gays no matter what they do, whether they play promiscuously in parks or whether they settle down in monogamous pairs, whether they are open (flaunting it!) or secretive (root out this hidden evil!) is foolish for any serious political movement including and especially nationalists. Binding a people around organized abusiveness towards a small but inevitable population is simply cruel.

LOL typical Swede.

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2012 Sep 23 11:07
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Kalevanpoika
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Post: #22
RE: Slovenia Gay Adoption Law Rejected In Referendum
(2012 Sep 22 19:21)Loddfafner Wrote:  Is a child raised by two people of the same sex who share the burdens and sacrifices really all that worse off than one raised by a single mother who must also work for wages?

Maybe not. Children with broken families are a tragedy. But why should a state adopt a policy encouraging the creation of them?
2012 Sep 23 11:14
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Dussander
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RE: Slovenia Gay Adoption Law Rejected In Referendum
I'd also add that there are probably more than enough heterosexual families able and willing to adopt and raise children appropriately.

We must dissent.

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2012 Sep 23 11:46
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Aramis
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Post: #24
RE: Slovenia Gay Adoption Law Rejected In Referendum
(2012 Sep 23 00:09)Phlegethon Wrote:  I guess the stress should be on "sane" here, no on "no one".

Unfortunately most folks in the decisive positions are anything but sane, and that is the core problem from which all our collateral problems emanate.

Agreed. But how again are random ramblings in here a prodctive step in the right direction?

I don't mind though, as this is nothing more but a discussion forum after all, where members are supposed to give us a piece of their mind. Yet there is a point where general contributions become repetitive, and the whole topic turns from a comedy to tragedy (of the human mind).

Some new ideas or scientific discoveries is what I expected to find, instead of mere worn out phrases as delivered by most proponents from both sides (and neither is the "likes" fan club doing good). "Homosexuality is wrong", "homosexuals are not supposed to raise children", "I'm a proud gay person in pursuit of my rights!"
Yes, we got it for Christ's sake...

That's all there was to say. And as I myself didn't give any contributions of the aforementioned quality, I'll quit now.
2012 Sep 23 14:19
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Phlegethon
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Post: #25
RE: Slovenia Gay Adoption Law Rejected In Referendum
Well, you know me - I am a reactionary gung-ho but such threads can point out in how far our views on such issues differ. Actually I am not fully in favour of adoption in general because I deem many of the applicants as not fit to have children. Neither are most parents, of course, but the first need a permit while the letter can procreate as much as they want without the state interfering. And that seems to be the cause of our demographic crisis. Not that there are not enough children but that those few children are from the wrong end of the societal strata.


Not in haunts of marble chill,
Temples drear where ancients trod,—
Nay, in oaks on woody hill
Lives and moves the German God.

2012 Sep 23 14:37
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Raskolnikov
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Post: #26
RE: Slovenia Gay Adoption Law Rejected In Referendum
At this point the meme here is "we should be able to reproduce biologically like straight couples." (in vitro fertilization for two men using surrogate mothers strapped for cash.)

In other words, it doesn't matter what the specifics are. There is always a new argument going in a certain direction for some weird new situation that has nothing to do with anything (and is probably dysgenic).

Many younger people are having problems getting careers, marriages or have abandoned the idea altogether - because of indoctrination but also pretend it's what they want because it's become economically hopeless - yet the fashion is to support homosexual rights for something they don't themselves have. It's a joke.

I curse all this.
2012 Sep 23 14:47
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Eldritch
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Post: #27
RE: Slovenia Gay Adoption Law Rejected In Referendum
Adoption is not a gay couples' right. But it is neither a straight couples' right. It's the right of a child with no family.

I like to look at the human self-model as a neurocomputational weapon, a certain data structure that the brain can activate from time to time.

Thomas Metzinger
2012 Sep 23 15:20
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Post: #28
RE: Slovenia Gay Adoption Law Rejected In Referendum
(2012 Sep 23 15:20)Eldritch Wrote:  Adoption is not a gay couples' right. But it is neither a straight couples' right. It's the right of a child with no family.

This would be valid if children could actually pick their foster parents.
The question here is not if children have the right to a family as the answer is obvious, but the question is WHAT kind of a family.
2012 Sep 23 16:33
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RE: Slovenia Gay Adoption Law Rejected In Referendum
(2012 Sep 22 22:07)Heretik Wrote:  So not accepting homosexuality is "crude mentality"?

It's usually an indicator of an less advanced society.

I'm sure that western Europe is quaking in their boots at little Slovenia's decision Smile
2012 Sep 23 17:29
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RE: Slovenia Gay Adoption Law Rejected In Referendum
(2012 Sep 22 22:33)Zephyr Wrote:  
(2012 Sep 22 15:41)Loddfafner Wrote:  original opposite-sex partner was too psychotic
(2012 Sep 22 15:41)Loddfafner Wrote:  small-minded impulses of the electorate
(2012 Sep 22 19:21)Loddfafner Wrote:  biases of the researchers
(2012 Sep 22 19:21)Loddfafner Wrote:  lots of messed-up individuals raised by a married mother and father
(2012 Sep 22 19:21)Loddfafner Wrote:  We can condemn those deadbeats as hypocrites
(2012 Sep 22 19:21)Loddfafner Wrote:  It is a messed-up world
(2012 Sep 22 19:21)Loddfafner Wrote:  (root out this hidden evil!)
(2012 Sep 22 19:21)Loddfafner Wrote:  foolish for any serious political movement
(2012 Sep 22 19:21)Loddfafner Wrote:  organized abusiveness towards a small but inevitable population is simply cruel
(2012 Sep 22 21:19)Loddfafner Wrote:  there is a certain mentality that instinctively opposes homosexuality
(2012 Sep 22 21:19)Loddfafner Wrote:  Those with this crude mentality
(2012 Sep 22 21:19)Loddfafner Wrote:  unfortunately runs rampant and unchecked in nationalist circles
(2012 Sep 22 21:19)Loddfafner Wrote:  unable to grasp
(2012 Sep 22 21:19)Loddfafner Wrote:  the whiners will equally condemn gays for not procreating and for raising children
(2012 Sep 22 23:38)Arawn Wrote:  So many people on here have such a superficial view on sexuality.
(2012 Sep 23 17:29)Treffie Wrote:  It's usually an indicator of an less advanced society.

I'm sure that western Europe is quaking in their boots at little Slovenia's decision
2012 Sep 23 18:00
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