Sweden's insane anti-discrimination laws have created a generation of lost women
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Cinnamon
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Post: #21
RE: Sweden's insane anti-discrimination laws have created a generation of lost women
(2012 Dec 01 19:06)Raskolnikov Wrote:  The idea that Toys R Us or whatever would be selling homosexual-theme dolls to little boys is a ship long sailed.

[Image: hemanc.jpg]

I'd rather play with Barbie.

But actually I just made weapons out of sticks and branches as a kid. Along with a couple of legos and dinosaurs, I never had as many toys as others, one of whom had an extra plastic crap containment room. I wouldn't buy my children a bunch of plastic or have them watch advertisement-baby sitting cartoons.

Oh.... He-Man.... Yes..... His Alter-Ego Adam was so gay that Elton John looks hetero when he is compared with Adam. But Teela has hated Adam for his pacifism. He-Man is the classical soldier: He doesn't think, he only fights!
2012 Dec 01 20:59
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Xmia
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Post: #22
RE: Sweden's insane anti-discrimination laws have created a generation of lost women
(2012 Nov 27 10:41)Erwann Wrote:  
[Image: swedentoys.jpg]
Norway / Sweden

I actually think this is pretty awesome Big Grin and it seems lots of guyz here claimed to like to play with dolls too so the guy feeding the baby isn't so bad either? at least they are both scandinavian-looking Tongue it's showing the wimminz should join in the defence of the nation and the menz should be supportive of the upbringing of the children, that's good, right? healthy values, mais non? LOL
Although it would be better if both packages were used in the country.

Now what's really bad (alright, I don't think the motive behind the swedish packages is actually good)... I went into the toystore today (christmas scouting) and saw a big display of these:

[Image: prodzoomimg4607.jpg]
[Image: main_battle_tank_7260.jpg]
[Image: blackhawk.jpg]

'World Peacekeepers' Facepalm

at least GI Joe et al. could claim the pretense of being fantasy Facepalm Facepalm
2012 Dec 02 00:21
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Post: #23
RE: Sweden's insane anti-discrimination laws have created a generation of lost women
[Image: swedentoys.jpg]


They had to atribute the girl holding a gun with male characteristics and make the boy with the doll appear rather like a girl (which is why they took a very young one in the first place).

They desperately try to get rid of pre-determined gender roles but are unable get rid of gender in the first place. A foolproof path to failure. Sisyphus finds it amusing.
2012 Dec 02 00:59
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Susi
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Post: #24
RE: Sweden's insane anti-discrimination laws have created a generation of lost women
(2012 Dec 02 00:59)Aramis Wrote:  They desperately try to get rid of pre-determined gender roles but are unable get rid of gender in the first place. A foolproof path to failure. Sisyphus finds it amusing.

When I think about gender roles, I get a little irritated. Why should I have to conform to them at all times? I won't restrict my 'unfeminine' hobbies because they're traditionally 'masculine'. The roles are always in flux because they're not based in any sort of actuality, only in society. I don't mean to say that I totally disagree with having distinct genders (and the roles within). I just think sticking to them with such rigidity is also 'a foolproof path to failure'.

Examples of what I mean by rigid gender roles sucking:
1. Whenever I meet someone new at martial arts class or gym they assume I have no idea what I'm doing, or I'm there with my boyfriend, or some other reason than wanting to train my fighting skills
2. My colleagues initially assumed that I would have lower marks than them, and wouldn't be as successful in presenting at conferences and publishing, possibly due to my energetic and emphatic personality, which I suppose is a 'feminine' trait in some respects... I could act more 'masculine' which would mean my colleagues would take me more seriously, but anyways... it sucks. I don't want to change who I am.
3. I once went to the theatre with a man who didn't speak English. The attendant continued to ask him questions despite my speaking up and saying that he didn't speak any goddamned English. This type of thing has happened more than once.
4. If I act assertive in any way, I'm automatically a harpy (though most people generally just call me a 'bitch').

If a boy wants to play with a doll, let him. 'Action figures' are really dolls in any case. I played with enough 'masculine' toys because of my older brother, and I'm not eroding society or anything.

Edit: I suppose what I meant is that gender roles are imposed upon biological gender, to potential detriment for all of us, men and women included.

"Имеют. Знают. Это ты, брат, еще не знаешь"
2012 Dec 03 07:51
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W. R.
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Post: #25
RE: Sweden's insane anti-discrimination laws have created a generation of lost women
(2012 Dec 03 07:51)Susi Wrote:  When I think about gender roles, I get a little irritated. Why should I have to conform to them at all times? I won't restrict my 'unfeminine' hobbies because they're traditionally 'masculine'. The roles are always in flux because they're not based in any sort of actuality, only in society. I don't mean to say that I totally disagree with having distinct genders (and the roles within). I just think sticking to them with such rigidity is also 'a foolproof path to failure'.

This is so true and inspiring. I think I'll go and shave my legs right now!

[...] just as it is not left unto us to choose our ancestors, so we may not choose our nation; we can only fulfil, or not fulfil, the obligations that come from being a member of our people’.
© Dr. Jan Stankievič ‘From the History of Belarus’

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2012 Dec 03 13:12
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Zephyr
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Post: #26
RE: Sweden's insane anti-discrimination laws have created a generation of lost women
Let's hope next swedish Toys'r'Us catalogue brings a breast feeding doll for boys.

They could add a brochure with a list of paedopsychiatrists and plastic surgeons because later in life the boy will need a good pair of milky tits.

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2012 Dec 03 13:55
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Post: #27
RE: Sweden's insane anti-discrimination laws have created a generation of lost women
(2012 Dec 03 07:51)Susi Wrote:  When I think about gender roles, I get a little irritated. Why should I have to conform to them at all times? I won't restrict my 'unfeminine' hobbies because they're traditionally 'masculine'. The roles are always in flux because they're not based in any sort of actuality, only in society. I don't mean to say that I totally disagree with having distinct genders (and the roles within). I just think sticking to them with such rigidity is also 'a foolproof path to failure'.

Of course such rigidity would also turn into a path to failure as these scenarios are unnatural and thus based on repression and in it's existence doomed on the long run. The same rules and reasoning applies to the one as discribed by me though.

I was certainly not arguing in favor of such extremes. Neither did I adress you or any specific woman with an imperative to drop all masucilinity from their character and become exclussivly feminine instead. Be what you are.

No, I was making a general statement, involving both genders as a whole, arguing that no matter how much social pressure and engineering is involved, members of a certain gender will by default of biological determinism be inclined towards a behavior and role in society typical for their (biological) gender.

Quote:The roles are always in flux because they're not based in any sort of actuality, only in society.

Society plays it's fair share in enforcing existing gender roles, influencing it's structure and character as well.

But to make such an exclusive statement as to say "they're not based in any sort of actuality" is, sorry, but nothing but confirmation bias.

The existence of gender roles similar to our human societies (together with similarities as in living in groups, hierarchical organisation etc) is found among other hominids as well, like great apes, but also in monkey societies (e.g. rhesus monkeys). The fact that a great deal of monkey societies are gynocentric (unlike most human ones), like the bonobos, doesn't hinder each individual to accommodate to their gender specific behavior. It's all due to sexual dimorphism, not more or less. No social engineering in ape socities involved.


And I know, human socities are not that of chimpanzees, and that's besised the point. But there is an analogy which can be drawn, and a formula behind it, which proved to work for millenia.
If women desire to educate themselves, devote more of their life to a career rather than family, or men to turn into stay-at-home dads, let them. But for the love of God, don't encourage it as something which has to be done. Just enable them access to necessary resources if possible.
2012 Dec 03 14:10
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Post: #28
RE: Sweden's insane anti-discrimination laws have created a generation of lost women
(2012 Dec 01 19:06)Raskolnikov Wrote:  The idea that Toys R Us or whatever would be selling homosexual-theme dolls to little boys is a ship long sailed.

Do you really consider He-Man to be homosexual?

(the rest below isn't directed at you.)Smile

I am strangely fascinated by men's reactions to He-Man, who are at odds with He-Man's overt masculinity. I find nothing homosexual about He-Man or the characters that came along with the He-Man franchise, in fact I place He-Man in the same category as I do every other 70s/80s culturally inflated, plastic gitchmo kids nonsense: Good old imaginative childish crap.

Fisto is not some veiled reference to fisting, but a corny descriptive name for a character whose fist can dissolve mountains into dust. (I'm still waiting to hear an explanation of why Jitsu, Fisto's enemy, isn't equally deemed homosexual.)

Man-at-Arms is a man who trains the elite guard of Eternias palace...but wait! HE has a moustache!!!1111 HE is gay!!?!1

My dad had a moustache, as did every other person in the 70s and 80s. To think homosexuality was so well appreciated back then. Facepalm

Leech was ... wait for it! A leech! But he is homosexual because he sounds similar to the act of fellatio. (snigger)

Ram-Man. Ah! So obviously about the homosexual act of hitting your head against the drawbridge of Castle Greyskull....uh? wait no he was the medieval wartime act of hitting your penis against a rectum....God I'm confused.

The list goes on. My favourite being Extendar. He was homosexual because homosexuals can all secretly extend their arms and legs and heads! LOL

I got a few of these names from a quick search of Google. It is amazing how many sleazy minded "men" are so quick to think of homosexual acts when faced by their childhood heroes. Considering He-Man was a Jewish creation, I suppose we're lucky the original dark haired, Semitic looking He-Man was declined by Mattel for a more European looking character. The original story books had He-Man as a Conan type being selected and instructed by the dark temptress Sorceress to protect the knowledge and sanctity of Castle Greyskull from the minions of Skeletor. There was no '80s gitchmo poppy' themes for He-Man, he was a natural warrior with pure warrior instincts. Even the early Prince Adam was the continuation of his alter ego, until the cartoon came out and had to tone down its violent, unchristian portrayal of masculinity. The company thought the similarity to Conan would turn off the parents. If only parents knew that He-Man was actually gay and living in rainbow land. Rolleyes

And to add to the theme of 'men who played with girls dolls as kids', I used to play with my sisters She-Ra dolls and castle, and my Action Man used to kill Ken and marry Barbie. Smile
2012 Dec 03 14:32
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Post: #29
RE: Sweden's insane anti-discrimination laws have created a generation of lost women
(2012 Dec 03 07:51)Susi Wrote:  
(2012 Dec 02 00:59)Aramis Wrote:  They desperately try to get rid of pre-determined gender roles but are unable get rid of gender in the first place. A foolproof path to failure. Sisyphus finds it amusing.

When I think about gender roles, I get a little irritated. Why should I have to conform to them at all times? I won't restrict my 'unfeminine' hobbies because they're traditionally 'masculine'. The roles are always in flux because they're not based in any sort of actuality, only in society. I don't mean to say that I totally disagree with having distinct genders (and the roles within). I just think sticking to them with such rigidity is also 'a foolproof path to failure'.

Examples of what I mean by rigid gender roles sucking:
1. Whenever I meet someone new at martial arts class or gym they assume I have no idea what I'm doing, or I'm there with my boyfriend, or some other reason than wanting to train my fighting skills
2. My colleagues initially assumed that I would have lower marks than them, and wouldn't be as successful in presenting at conferences and publishing, possibly due to my energetic and emphatic personality, which I suppose is a 'feminine' trait in some respects... I could act more 'masculine' which would mean my colleagues would take me more seriously, but anyways... it sucks. I don't want to change who I am.
3. I once went to the theatre with a man who didn't speak English. The attendant continued to ask him questions despite my speaking up and saying that he didn't speak any goddamned English. This type of thing has happened more than once.
4. If I act assertive in any way, I'm automatically a harpy (though most people generally just call me a 'bitch').

If a boy wants to play with a doll, let him. 'Action figures' are really dolls in any case. I played with enough 'masculine' toys because of my older brother, and I'm not eroding society or anything.

Edit: I suppose what I meant is that gender roles are imposed upon biological gender, to potential detriment for all of us, men and women included.

I can related to Susi's experience as a woman as well.

I am a computer programmer by profession and I feel that because I am a woman, my code is looked over more rigidly, even by the client, than my male counterparts, and edited behind my back too. I am often told to "think logically" (uh, if I wasn't capable of doing that, I wouldn't have even gotten this job in the first place).

When I go to Future Shop and look in the computer section, the guys there always assume because I am a woman that I know nothing about computers, and they'll try to sell me a piece of crap saying it's "state of the art". I know the difference, and I am just there buying parts to fix my computer, or if I buy a new one I buy the cheapest/crappiest one in the store and upgrade it myself. I always want to tell them "I know more about computers than you".

Yes, and if you act assertive, or even DEFEND YOURSELF, you're called a "bitch" or "crazy" or "irrational".

I also believe the issues I have encountered online are because of sexism. The Internet is a sexist place.

2012 Dec 03 14:57
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Post: #30
RE: Sweden's insane anti-discrimination laws have created a generation of lost women
(2012 Dec 03 14:57)Torkilsdottir Wrote:  When I go to Future Shop and look in the computer section, the guys there always assume because I am a woman that I know nothing about computers, and they'll try to sell me a piece of crap saying it's "state of the art". I know the difference, and I am just there buying parts to fix my computer, or if I buy a new one I buy the cheapest/crappiest one in the store and upgrade it myself. I always want to tell them "I know more about computers than you".

People in computer shops etc do that to me to though. Maybe I just look thick.Big Grin
2012 Dec 03 15:25
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