Sweden's insane anti-discrimination laws have created a generation of lost women
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Torkilsdottir
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RE: Sweden's insane anti-discrimination laws have created a generation of lost women
(2012 Dec 03 18:45)Osweo Wrote:  Internet bollocks that you may be referring to does not count, as it seldom involves normal people.

So the Canadian government task force on online harassment of women and girls doesn't count? I was thinking it was something I actually agree with my money being spend on for once.

Better than the vet bill for the Prime Minister's cat. I like cats and all, but that was ridiculous!

2012 Dec 03 19:14
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Osweo
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RE: Sweden's insane anti-discrimination laws have created a generation of lost women
(2012 Dec 03 19:14)Torkilsdottir Wrote:  
(2012 Dec 03 18:45)Osweo Wrote:  Internet bollocks that you may be referring to does not count, as it seldom involves normal people.

So the Canadian government task force on online harassment of women and girls doesn't count? I was thinking it was something I actually agree with my money being spend on for once.

Better than the vet bill for the Prime Minister's cat. I like cats and all, but that was ridiculous!

The online harrassers are a bunch of pricks, clearly. This is a prick problem, not a general societal gender issue.

"And now if a whole nation fell into that? In such a case, I answer, infallibly they will return out of it. For life is no cunningly-devised deception or self deception, it is a great truth that thou art alive, that thou hast desires, necessities: neither can these subsist and satisfy themselves on delusions, but on fact. To fact, depend on it, we shall come back: to such fact, blessed or cursed, as we have wisdom for."
Thomas Carlyle
2012 Dec 03 19:17
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Peasant
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Post: #43
RE: Sweden's insane anti-discrimination laws have created a generation of lost women
(2012 Dec 03 17:11)Osweo Wrote:  That's what men do.

Oh come on man. Facepalm Don't reduce current culturally accepted behaviour as some kind of inherently unchangeable thing.

Race mixing, theft, rape, assault, murder.... that is just what people do. And I think these things most likely are more natural than the excesses of current gender roles and stereotyping.

Such fatalism disappoints me. sad
2012 Dec 03 19:48
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Osweo
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RE: Sweden's insane anti-discrimination laws have created a generation of lost women
(2012 Dec 03 19:48)Peasant Wrote:  Oh come on man. Facepalm Don't reduce current culturally accepted behaviour as some kind of inherently unchangeable thing.
When I talk of 'men' it is understood that I'm speaking of OUR men, not what males might do in the Solomon Islands or Tierra del Fuego. In any case there are 'men' and there are 'males'. To be a 'man' in English, implies rather more than the simple biology, and this refers to the cultural element. I am not an alien writing an exobiological treatise on the planet Earth. I am an Englishman talking about things from the 'Eurosphere' for want of a better word. Thus, that I should implicitly speak in apparent generalities that are in fact rather specific, is no surprise.

The fact that the English 'man' implies a certain type of manly behaviour, in line with English cultural associations, means that its use is also a very political thing. To be a REAL man, is to be the IDEAL man. The ideal obviously depends on the speaker, but in my case it is clear enough that it should imply a traditional pattern of behaviour that was the aim for all respectable people prior to the present distortions fostered by film and twisted legislative and educational norms, which themselves are the result of an equally political drive on behalf of those that most of us would label as our enemies.

As a nationalist, I make no apologies for upholding, promoting and praising the behavioural models that have resulted from my people's traditional autonomous history. That there is leeway within the gender model so espoused is well known, given that it is a REAL thing, not the fruit of an ideologue's imagination, so there's no need to reduce it to a cramped caricature as you seem to be doing here.
Quote:Race mixing, theft, rape, assault, murder.... that is just what people do.
And people punish, with incarceration, fines and execution. dunno
Quote:And I think these things most likely are more natural than the excesses of current gender roles and stereotyping.
Identify some 'excesses' for me. I don't see them in the real world that I inhabit.

"And now if a whole nation fell into that? In such a case, I answer, infallibly they will return out of it. For life is no cunningly-devised deception or self deception, it is a great truth that thou art alive, that thou hast desires, necessities: neither can these subsist and satisfy themselves on delusions, but on fact. To fact, depend on it, we shall come back: to such fact, blessed or cursed, as we have wisdom for."
Thomas Carlyle
2012 Dec 03 20:10
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Peasant
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Post: #45
RE: Sweden's insane anti-discrimination laws have created a generation of lost women
(2012 Dec 03 20:10)Osweo Wrote:  When I talk of 'men' it is understood that I'm speaking of OUR men, not what males might do in the Solomon Islands or Tierra del Fuego. In any case there are 'men' and there are 'males'. To be a 'man' in English, implies rather more than the simple biology, and this refers to the cultural element. I am not an alien writing an exobiological treatise on the planet Earth. I am an Englishman talking about things from the 'Eurosphere' for want of a better word. Thus, that I should implicitly speak in apparent generalities that are in fact rather specific, is no surprise. The fact that the English 'man' implies a certain type of manly behaviour, in line with English cultural associations, means that its use is also a very political thing. To be a REAL man, is to be the IDEAL man. The ideal obviously depends on the speaker, but in my case it is clear enough that it should imply a traditional pattern of behaviour that was the aim for all respectable people prior to the present distortions fostered by film and twisted legislative and educational norms, which themselves are the result of an equally political drive on behalf of those that most of us would label as our enemies.

Spain might be the word you are looking for. So trying to con women by taking advantage of an assumed lack of knowledge is a great European tradition worth clinging to?

Social norms have never been completely static and unchanging before the modern era. They have changed with technology, religion, politics, and environment.

The 'ideal man' changes to, although a few instinctual characteristics are attractive in the opposite sex by each gender... purely for means of survival. Not checking boxes of what is a masculine or feminine thing.

The ideal man should not be ignorant or a manipulator...

Besides, we are not talking about ideals. We are talking about widespread behaviour that is not necessarily part of an ideal.

Quote:As a nationalist, I make no apologies for upholding, promoting and praising the behavioural models that have resulted from my people's traditional autonomous history.

As a reactionary. Self-criticism has it's importance, and dull stagnation will only last so long. As a nationalist I make no apologies to rejecting cultural norms that I feel are negative to the people.


Quote:And people punish, with incarceration, fines and execution.
Exactly my point, we strive to punish and deter such behaviour. Not just say 'Oh well, that is how things are!'

Quote:Identify some 'excesses' for me. I don't see them in the real world that I inhabit.

Then perhaps you should look harder. Or maybe not completely ignore the perspective of a couple of the women who have posted in this thread.
2012 Dec 03 21:01
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Guiri
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Post: #46
RE: Sweden's insane anti-discrimination laws have created a generation of lost women
(2012 Dec 03 19:48)Peasant Wrote:  
(2012 Dec 03 17:11)Osweo Wrote:  That's what men do.

Oh come on man. Facepalm Don't reduce current culturally accepted behaviour as some kind of inherently unchangeable thing.

Race mixing, theft, rape, assault, murder.... that is just what people do. And I think these things most likely are more natural than the excesses of current gender roles and stereotyping.

Such fatalism disappoints me. sad

I'm confused. Wasn't Os just referring to men shrugging off rude and offensive comments?

I think this is the way it generally is... men tend to have two culturally acceptable options available to them when it comes to dealing with minor offence; ignore it or attack back. Women have three; ignore it, attack back or play the victim, with the latter being a popular and even encouraged choice these days. Men of course could show weakness and cry about people being rude or unfair too, but society judges them much more harshly for this and they would face social ostracism at best, opportunistic bullying at worst. Female whingers are often applauded and pandered to, thanks to feminism.



Torkilsdottir Wrote:So the Canadian government task force on online harassment of women and girls doesn't count?

WTF??? Talk about mission impossible. Sounds a bit like Bush's "war on terror". One would do just as well to set up a government task force to tackle idiocy. Clearly a case of the Canadian govt. trying to appease the masses, in spite of it being a completely unrealistic endeavour.


Torkilsdottir Wrote:I was thinking it was something I actually agree with my money being spend on for once.

You'd be better off saving your money and avoiding internet communication if it's so damaging for you. dunno
2012 Dec 03 21:09
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Peasant
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Post: #47
RE: Sweden's insane anti-discrimination laws have created a generation of lost women
(2012 Dec 03 19:48)Guiri Wrote:  I'm confused. Wasn't Os just referring to men shrugging off rude and offensive comments?

Maybe he was. Not how I read it though. Where you Os? Big Grin
2012 Dec 03 21:13
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Post: #48
RE: Sweden's insane anti-discrimination laws have created a generation of lost women
Speaking of gender roles, there is reason to give the question some thought and not simply dismiss it as the domain of genderbenders.

I think those of us who see European ethnic survival as something to strive for should ask ourselves, are we giving European women of today attractive, positive roles to strive for that are in accordance with European cultural continuity and development?

I recently read an article by D.H. Lawrence, which discussed the subject (sort of). Men, who complain of feminism's corruption of women rarely offer very enticing alternatives. Those alternatives cannot be the ones that held sway in the past, they must be 'competetive' today.

One thing that the 'upsetting' of established gender patterns in recent history has done is that it has left women quite unsure about what's expected of them. We should attempt to formulate an appealing, emotionally rewarding and at the same time culturally compatible ideal.

"Devil, I am devil." ― Pekka Siitoin
2012 Dec 03 21:47
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Post: #49
RE: Sweden's insane anti-discrimination laws have created a generation of lost women
(2012 Dec 03 21:47)Mustapaita Wrote:  One thing that the 'upsetting' of established gender patterns in recent history has done is that it has left women quite unsure about what's expected of them.

Oh I think women are quite sure of what's expected of them (they're just vastly unaware of the long-term consequences... until it's too late)... a high level of education followed by the pursuit of a power career, making enough money to sustain a lifestyle of shopping, partying, promiscuity and plastic surgery, then after 10 - 15 years or so, consider marriage and and having a baby or two which will swiftly be placed into daycare shortly after birth so she can continue her career whilst now also being lumped with all of the housework, cooking, shopping and the role of primary caregiver to the children while her husband mostly sits on his arse doing f*** all. For those women who decide to forego marriage and motherhood (or leave it too late for them to be an option) they are expected to live a life of extended youth and promiscuity sustained by dressing as if they were 20 years younger than what they are, increasing amounts of plastic surgery, make-up, hair-dye and alcohol.

Read : the modern superwoman. She does it all and has it all. Apparently.


Mustapaita Wrote:We should attempt to formulate an appealing, emotionally rewarding and at the same time culturally compatible ideal.

It's not about offering alternatives, in my opinion, it's about educating our girls differently. Offer any alternatives that are contrary to what they're being raised to believe is desirable and they will be dismissed.
2012 Dec 03 22:18
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Post: #50
RE: Sweden's insane anti-discrimination laws have created a generation of lost women
(2012 Dec 03 22:18)Guiri Wrote:  
(2012 Dec 03 21:47)Mustapaita Wrote:  One thing that the 'upsetting' of established gender patterns in recent history has done is that it has left women quite unsure about what's expected of them.

Oh I think women are quite sure of what's expected of them (they're just vastly unaware of the long-term consequences... until it's too late)... a high level of education followed by the pursuit of a power career, making enough money to sustain a lifestyle of shopping, partying, promiscuity and plastic surgery, then after 10 - 15 years or so, consider marriage and and having a baby or two which will swiftly be placed into daycare shortly after birth so she can continue her career whilst now also being lumped with all of the housework, cooking, shopping and the role of primary caregiver to the children while her husband mostly sits on his arse doing f*** all. For those women who decide to forego marriage and motherhood (or leave it too late for them to be an option) they are expected to live a life of extended youth and promiscuity sustained by dressing as if they were 20 years younger than what they are, increasing amounts of plastic surgery, make-up, hair-dye and alcohol.

Well that's what the corporate media and women's magazines seems to think, but we're talking about what men expect of women. And I think that that, just as what you described above, is often rather conflicting.

"Devil, I am devil." ― Pekka Siitoin
2012 Dec 03 22:38
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