'Ask a native speaker' thread
Author Message
Osweo
Offline
Member



England

Posts: 2.883
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 904
Post: #61
RE: 'Ask a native speaker' thread
Горная Инглишетия - ФОРЕВА!

[Image: 0_7761b_8cdbb3ae_orig.jpg]

[Image: 0_77621_df75187d_orig.jpg]
;)

"And now if a whole nation fell into that? In such a case, I answer, infallibly they will return out of it. For life is no cunningly-devised deception or self deception, it is a great truth that thou art alive, that thou hast desires, necessities: neither can these subsist and satisfy themselves on delusions, but on fact. To fact, depend on it, we shall come back: to such fact, blessed or cursed, as we have wisdom for."
Thomas Carlyle
2015 Jan 30 19:56
Like PostLIKE REPLY
The following 1 user Likes Osweo's post:
Temnozor (31-01-2015)
W. R.
Offline
cannibalish chauvinist



Беларусь

Posts: 1.665
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 525
Post: #62
RE: 'Ask a native speaker' thread
Why do people call William Jefferson Clinton “Bill Clinton” and Anthony Charles Lynton Blair “Tony Blair”? There are more such examples. Isn't it too informal?

[...] just as it is not left unto us to choose our ancestors, so we may not choose our nation; we can only fulfil, or not fulfil, the obligations that come from being a member of our people’.
© Dr. Jan Stankievič ‘From the History of Belarus’

[Image: now.jpg]
2015 Jan 31 21:32
Like PostLIKE REPLY
The following 2 users Like W. R.'s post:
Aemma (31-01-2015), Mustapaita (01-02-2015)
W. R.
Offline
cannibalish chauvinist



Беларусь

Posts: 1.665
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 525
Post: #63
RE: 'Ask a native speaker' thread
How to translate into English the Russian phrase ‘Он просто с жиру бесится’?

[...] just as it is not left unto us to choose our ancestors, so we may not choose our nation; we can only fulfil, or not fulfil, the obligations that come from being a member of our people’.
© Dr. Jan Stankievič ‘From the History of Belarus’

[Image: now.jpg]
2015 Nov 06 14:36
Like PostLIKE REPLY
Osweo
Offline
Member



England

Posts: 2.883
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 904
Post: #64
RE: 'Ask a native speaker' thread
(2015 Jan 31 21:32)W. R. Wrote:  Why do people call William Jefferson Clinton “Bill Clinton” and Anthony Charles Lynton Blair “Tony Blair”? There are more such examples. Isn't it too informal?
Of course it is. It's a feature of the last few decades, and is part of a trick of trying to get the ordinary proles think that the elite of the political class is composed of regular men on the street, just like themselves. You'll occasionally hear older people complain about it, but youngsters don't know any better, any more.

It's not entirely new in the Anglophone world, though. Immediately springing to mind are Lord Russell, UK PM in the 1840s and '60s, who was widely known as "Radical Jack". Or there's Ben Franklin in America, not Benjamin Lee Franklin. Our shortened forenames are more widely used than yours. I don't know anyone who calls me by my full forename - it's simply not the done thing. Your hypocoristic forms are more intimate than ours, for whatever reason.

In general, things are getting to the point when people don't even KNOW how to be formal any more. Even organisations like the police force now often have a "first names rule". It's all about maintaining a democratic facade to hide real power relations while simultaneously helping add to chaos in social relations.
(2015 Nov 06 14:36)W. R. Wrote:  How to translate into English the Russian phrase ‘Он просто с жиру бесится’?
LoL, literally "he's just gone possessed from fat", but fuck knows, here's Multitran:

Quote: беситься с жиру | в начало
общ. be too well off (Anglophile); grow fussy (Anglophile); grow fastidious (Anglophile); not to know when one is well off (makhno); be too well off for one's own good (makhno)
руг. shit in high cotton (Yokky)

Термины, содержащие бесится: все формы слова (28) | только заданная форма слова (1)
амер.англ. бесится с жиру the good life's gone to [his or her] head. (Maggie; беситЬся с жиру don ignacio)
общ. беситься с жиру be too well off (Anglophile)
общ. беситься с жиру grow fastidious (Anglophile)
общ. беситься с жиру grow fussy (Anglophile)
руг. беситься с жиру shit in high cotton (Yokky)
общ. беситься с жиру be too well off for one's own good (makhno)
общ. беситься с жиру not to know when one is well off (makhno)
полит. они с жиру бесятся! they want egg in their beer! (bigmaxus)
полит. они с жиру бесятся! they want the icing on the cake! (bigmaxus)
полит. с жиру беситься too many sweets cloy the palate (bigmaxus)
полит. с жиру беситься too much of a good thing (bigmaxus)
полит. с жиру беситься trial by satiety (bigmaxus)
разг. с жиру беситься grow fussy (Gruzovik)
общ. с жиру беситься have too much money and too little to do with it (m_rakova)
общ. с жиру беситься be rich and bored (m_rakova)
общ. с жиру беситься be rich and jaded (m_rakova)
общ. с жиру беситься too much money and too little brain (m_rakova)
общ. с жиру беситься too much money and not enough/ no common sense (m_rakova)
общ. с жиру беситься act out of boredom (Игорь Миг)
общ. с жиру беситься have nothing better to do (Игорь Миг)

Almost all of them sound weird, archaic or contrived, though. I suppose it would depend on the context. The general sense that I can make out is that encapsulated best and most naturally in "he's rich and jaded", or what I myself might describe with "He's got more money than he knows what to do with."

"And now if a whole nation fell into that? In such a case, I answer, infallibly they will return out of it. For life is no cunningly-devised deception or self deception, it is a great truth that thou art alive, that thou hast desires, necessities: neither can these subsist and satisfy themselves on delusions, but on fact. To fact, depend on it, we shall come back: to such fact, blessed or cursed, as we have wisdom for."
Thomas Carlyle
2015 Nov 06 16:18
Like PostLIKE REPLY
The following 3 users Like Osweo's post:
Aemma (06-11-2015), Artturi (06-11-2015), W. R. (06-11-2015)
W. R.
Offline
cannibalish chauvinist



Беларусь

Posts: 1.665
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 525
Post: #65
RE: 'Ask a native speaker' thread
(2015 Nov 06 16:18)Osweo Wrote:  The general sense that I can make out is that encapsulated best and most naturally in "he's rich and jaded", or what I myself might describe with "He's got more money than he knows what to do with."

I myself understand the expression as ‘he has all his needs satisfied, and yet he finds excuses to bitch and demand more’.

[...] just as it is not left unto us to choose our ancestors, so we may not choose our nation; we can only fulfil, or not fulfil, the obligations that come from being a member of our people’.
© Dr. Jan Stankievič ‘From the History of Belarus’

[Image: now.jpg]
2015 Nov 06 17:03
Like PostLIKE REPLY
The following 2 users Like W. R.'s post:
Aemma (06-11-2015), Osweo (07-11-2015)
Temnozor
Offline
Kornilov did nothing wrong
Supervision



Россия

Posts: 2.595
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 642
Post: #66
RE: 'Ask a native speaker' thread
(2015 Nov 06 14:36)W. R. Wrote:  How to translate into English the Russian phrase ‘Он просто с жиру бесится’?

Being a spoilt cunt.

"Whoever says that he "belongs to his time" is only saying that he agrees with the largest number of fools at that moment." - Nicolás Gómez Dávila

[Image: ecc9v9ru.jpg]
2015 Nov 06 21:41
Like PostLIKE REPLY
The following 2 users Like Temnozor's post:
Osweo (07-11-2015), W. R. (06-11-2015)
Osweo
Offline
Member



England

Posts: 2.883
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 904
Post: #67
RE: 'Ask a native speaker' thread
(2015 Nov 06 17:03)W. R. Wrote:  I myself understand the expression as ‘he has all his needs satisfied, and yet he finds excuses to bitch and demand more’.
That's good, aye. "To bitch" is rather a new thing to me, though. I first came across it when I started talking to Americans online. Like most of their vulgarisms, it involves all kinds of nasty references to prison rape that we just didn't use to even imagine in England up until recent times.

(2015 Nov 06 21:41)Temnozor Wrote:  Being a spoilt cunt.
- This is my usual problem: Faced with a Russian phrase, I try to get my head around the sense, and then translate this mental sensation into my own native tongue. Unfortunately, few clients pay me to phrase things in Manchestersko-Proletarsky. I then have to struggle to remember "higher register" versions of what I'm saying. As time goes on, this gets more and more reduced to dim memories of the final years of school and at university, as it's quickly reaching the point where I will have spent more of my life abroad speaking to foreigners than in England and exposed to quality spoken English! Big Grin

Even so, somebody wrote today to say "Я пишу с небольшим предложением, и очень надеюсь, что вы не откажете. Мне очень понравилось ваше отношение в переводу и сам перевод, который вы делали для моего проекта ... Было бы вам интересно перевести снова небольшой отрывок из ... ? Однажды вы уже переводили эпиграф. Сложность в том, что это устаревший язык 18 века." Eek They don't realise that I wrote to a good half-dozen people last time, asking for opinions and explanations to try and get this otryvok translated right. Big Grin

"And now if a whole nation fell into that? In such a case, I answer, infallibly they will return out of it. For life is no cunningly-devised deception or self deception, it is a great truth that thou art alive, that thou hast desires, necessities: neither can these subsist and satisfy themselves on delusions, but on fact. To fact, depend on it, we shall come back: to such fact, blessed or cursed, as we have wisdom for."
Thomas Carlyle
2015 Nov 07 00:34
Like PostLIKE REPLY
The following 4 users Like Osweo's post:
Aptrgangr (07-11-2015), Artturi (07-11-2015), Temnozor (07-11-2015), W. R. (07-11-2015)
Temnozor
Offline
Kornilov did nothing wrong
Supervision



Россия

Posts: 2.595
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 642
Post: #68
RE: 'Ask a native speaker' thread
Heh, I even think you showed me that one. I don't know about 18th century Russian, but it can't be as bad as Shakespear English versus modern English, I suppose.

Quote:I try to get my head around the sense, and then translate this mental sensation into my own native tongue. Unfortunately, few clients pay me to phrase things in Manchestersko-Proletarsky

Hm, German has a good decent word to cover the meaning of W.R.'s phrase more or less "unersättlich sein" (being insatiable). Usually refers to people always lusting for "more" (of whatever) even if they've had quite enough. In English, I thought "ever-hungry" could probably do the same, but it sounds a bit silly to my ears.

"Whoever says that he "belongs to his time" is only saying that he agrees with the largest number of fools at that moment." - Nicolás Gómez Dávila

[Image: ecc9v9ru.jpg]
2015 Nov 07 01:13
Like PostLIKE REPLY
The following 2 users Like Temnozor's post:
Osweo (07-11-2015), W. R. (07-11-2015)
Aemma
Offline
...



France

Posts: 2.249
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 957
Post: #69
RE: 'Ask a native speaker' thread
(2015 Nov 07 00:34)Osweo Wrote:  
(2015 Nov 06 17:03)W. R. Wrote:  I myself understand the expression as ‘he has all his needs satisfied, and yet he finds excuses to bitch and demand more’.
That's good, aye. "To bitch" is rather a new thing to me, though. I first came across it when I started talking to Americans online. Like most of their vulgarisms, it involves all kinds of nasty references to prison rape that we just didn't use to even imagine in England up until recent times.

Eh? The term 'to bitch' has nothing to do with prison culture. It's a term used by many North Americans as a common expression meaning 'to complain' or 'to whinge', as you Brits like to say. It's been used here in North America ever since I can remember and isn't all that vulgar broadly-speaking. If anything 'to bitch about something or someone' probably has a greater affinity to 'typical' activity undertaken by women (hence the word 'bitch') than anything else.

Also of note is the different outlook most of us have on the words 'c*nt' and 'tw*t' that you guys like to use so liberally. In North America those two words are extremely vulgar actually and aren't used freely at all.

dunno

~Be the Virtuous Man or Woman you are meant to be.~
2015 Nov 07 05:40
Like PostLIKE REPLY
The following 2 users Like Aemma's post:
Artturi (07-11-2015), W. R. (07-11-2015)
Osweo
Offline
Member



England

Posts: 2.883
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 904
Post: #70
RE: 'Ask a native speaker' thread
(2015 Nov 07 05:40)Aemma Wrote:  Eh? The term 'to bitch' has nothing to do with prison culture. It's a term used by many North Americans as a common expression meaning 'to complain' or 'to whinge', as you Brits like to say. It's been used here in North America ever since I can remember and isn't all that vulgar broadly-speaking. If anything 'to bitch about something or someone' probably has a greater affinity to 'typical' activity undertaken by women (hence the word 'bitch') than anything else.
I seriously suspect the nastier new meanings have done a LOT to reinforce its use and lend it new meaning, however.
Quote: Also of note is the different outlook most of us have on the words 'c*nt' and 'tw*t' that you guys like to use so liberally. In North America those two words are extremely vulgar actually and aren't used freely at all.
You're mostly mistaking the rather crass and male-dominated atmosphere of online discussion for something more general here, I think. I wouldn't dream of saying cunt in my mother, father or sister's presence.

About s zhiru besitsya, btw, I meant to add that the entire concept was rather alien to me. Maybe it's just because of the social circles I've moved in, but I don't think we have the cultural expectation that excessive wealth and sloth will do this to a person's character, exactly. Its harmful effects are obviously recognised, but more of a kind of easy going dissolution and corruption, rather than making somebody tetchy and whiney as such. Are we looking at an echo of the specifically Russian kind of landholders' existence shown in Dead Souls or something?

"And now if a whole nation fell into that? In such a case, I answer, infallibly they will return out of it. For life is no cunningly-devised deception or self deception, it is a great truth that thou art alive, that thou hast desires, necessities: neither can these subsist and satisfy themselves on delusions, but on fact. To fact, depend on it, we shall come back: to such fact, blessed or cursed, as we have wisdom for."
Thomas Carlyle
2015 Nov 07 12:25
Like PostLIKE REPLY
The following 3 users Like Osweo's post:
Aemma (07-11-2015), Artturi (07-11-2015), W. R. (07-11-2015)


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)