Croatia criminalising Cyrillic script
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Dussander
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Post: #11
RE: Croatia criminalising Cyrillic script
(2013 Aug 22 17:53)Heretik Wrote:  
(2013 Aug 21 00:34)Phlegethon Wrote:  author Miljenko Jergović
(2013 Aug 21 00:34)Phlegethon Wrote:  liberal daily Jutarnji List

Nuff said.

(2013 Aug 22 16:01)Temnozor Wrote:  Croatia should criminalise both, cyrillic AND latin. Only glagolitic, only hardcore!

True dat, only glagoljica, only čakavski, only hardcore. Worship

King Zvonimir is impressed.

[Image: bassc2.jpg]

We must dissent.

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2013 Aug 22 19:49
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Post: #12
RE: Croatia criminalising Cyrillic script
(2013 Aug 22 19:49)Dussander Wrote:  [Image: bassc2.jpg]
Slavs then, Slavs now: obsessed with picking berries and mushrooms. Even tried to make an alphabet of it...

"And now if a whole nation fell into that? In such a case, I answer, infallibly they will return out of it. For life is no cunningly-devised deception or self deception, it is a great truth that thou art alive, that thou hast desires, necessities: neither can these subsist and satisfy themselves on delusions, but on fact. To fact, depend on it, we shall come back: to such fact, blessed or cursed, as we have wisdom for."
Thomas Carlyle
2013 Aug 22 19:55
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Dussander
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Post: #13
RE: Croatia criminalising Cyrillic script
People still use it occasionally, although those actually able to read it are few and far between. ;)

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We must dissent.

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2013 Aug 22 21:42
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Post: #14
RE: Croatia criminalising Cyrillic script
(2013 Aug 22 21:42)Dussander Wrote:  [Image: 2264595.jpg]
Sade prjedev svekh?

"And now if a whole nation fell into that? In such a case, I answer, infallibly they will return out of it. For life is no cunningly-devised deception or self deception, it is a great truth that thou art alive, that thou hast desires, necessities: neither can these subsist and satisfy themselves on delusions, but on fact. To fact, depend on it, we shall come back: to such fact, blessed or cursed, as we have wisdom for."
Thomas Carlyle
2013 Aug 22 21:50
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Post: #15
RE: Croatia criminalising Cyrillic script
Sami protiv svih.

We must dissent.

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2013 Aug 22 22:22
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Osweo (22-08-2013)
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Post: #16
RE: Croatia criminalising Cyrillic script
(2013 Aug 22 22:22)Dussander Wrote:  Sami protiv svih.
Ah, Hrvatski Millwall Big Grin

"And now if a whole nation fell into that? In such a case, I answer, infallibly they will return out of it. For life is no cunningly-devised deception or self deception, it is a great truth that thou art alive, that thou hast desires, necessities: neither can these subsist and satisfy themselves on delusions, but on fact. To fact, depend on it, we shall come back: to such fact, blessed or cursed, as we have wisdom for."
Thomas Carlyle
2013 Aug 22 22:26
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Post: #17
Re: RE: Croatia criminalising Cyrillic script
(2013 Aug 22 19:49)Dussander Wrote:  
(2013 Aug 22 17:53)Heretik Wrote:  
(2013 Aug 21 00:34)Phlegethon Wrote:  author Miljenko Jergović
(2013 Aug 21 00:34)Phlegethon Wrote:  liberal daily Jutarnji List

Nuff said.

(2013 Aug 22 16:01)Temnozor Wrote:  Croatia should criminalise both, cyrillic AND latin. Only glagolitic, only hardcore!

True dat, only glagoljica, only čakavski, only hardcore. Worship

King Zvonimir is impressed.

[Image: bassc2.jpg]

Honestly, wouldn't that be cool? Smile But true čakavski, without modern italian bullshit.

DžDž
2013 Sep 08 22:40
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Zephyr (09-09-2013)
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Post: #18
RE: Croatia criminalising Cyrillic script
What do you think of this statement I found from Metapedia in a Google search:

Quote:- Why this Old-Croatian Wikislavia in Chakavian and Kaykavian ? -

1. Chakavian was the dominant official language of the medieval Croatian Kingdom, and Kaykavian was the main cultivated literary language in Croatia from 16th till 19th century.

2. Because accross the entire (anti-Croatian) Wikipedias, due to their false NPOV no any minute article written in Chakavian nor Kaykavian is completely lacking, and both ones there are only scarcely noticed as exotic marginalia only.

3. Because a half of Croatians privately do not speak and hardly understand the recently imposed standard (official Balkanic-Yekavian). Kaykavian now use 1/3 (31 %) of northwestern Croats, and Chakavian speak nearly all Adriatic islanders, peninsular Istrians and many other Croats in coastal townships, and inlanders of Gacka valley etc.

4. Because above half citizens in Croatian capital Zagreb speak mostly Kaykavian.

5. Because the false "Croatian" Wikipedia is chiefly diriged by inlander Balkanic culture, including almost nothing or rare ingnorant stubs on sea, navigation, and Mediterranean ecumenas.

6. Because yet in 17th century many Croats used a cultivated language of Ikavish-Kaykavian in administration and literature accross Croatia from Adriatic (Istra, Vinodol) to north end (Drava, Medjimurje); then arbitrarily abolished by politic elimination of Zrinski & Frangipani princes (now replaced by imposed Balkanic ' Vukopis').

7. Because the fundamental human right is a free access to proper cultural heritage in his mother language - that for many Croatian Kaykavians and Chakavians is not at all new Yekavian 'standard' of hybrid Yugoslav Vukopis, being really a Balkanic creole pidgin.

??

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2013 Sep 09 06:31
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Post: #19
RE: Croatia criminalising Cyrillic script
(2013 Sep 08 22:40)Heretik Wrote:  Honestly, wouldn't that be cool? Smile But true čakavski, without modern italian bullshit.

As far as I'm concerned, it would be awesome. It would also somewhat rectify the historical injustice done to the rich tradition of Glagolithic priests and their Old Church Slavonic-Čakavian hybrid that eventually morphed into our first standard language. Damned Ottomans.

However, even if Croats demanded such a drastic change, those fat asses who sit in our parliament would surely oppose it. They and a myriad of NGOs like the fact that we're linguistically close to Serbs because of the "cooperation in the region" (so-called West Balkans) and because many of them weren't overjoyed when brotherhood and unity of Yugoslavia ceased to exist.

What I would advocate instead is compulsory education related to local dialects on a par with the standard language, in the areas where non-standard idioms are (traditionally) spoken. It's too late to abandon neoštokavian now.

(2013 Sep 09 06:31)Zephyr Wrote:  What do you think of this statement I found from Metapedia in a Google search:

I wouldn't know about wikipedians because I don't frequent talk pages often, so I'll skip those few points.

Quote:- Why this Old-Croatian Wikislavia in Chakavian and Kaykavian ? -

1. Chakavian was the dominant official language of the medieval Croatian Kingdom, and Kaykavian was the main cultivated literary language in Croatia from 16th till 19th century.

True.

Quote:3. Because a half of Croatians privately do not speak and hardly understand the recently imposed standard (official Balkanic-Yekavian).

Štokavian wasn't imposed on us. Even the kajkavian leaders of the Croatian national revival willfully switched to it because they knew it was the only way to include the entire Croatian national corpus under one umbrella, considering the seat of government and most institutions were already in their (kajkavian) area. They eventually used it to connect with Serbs, which didn't turn out well on multiple occasions.

And I can't believe so many people don't understand the standard very well. I mean, nobody actually speaks the standard Croatian (although some idioms are way closer to it than others), but I'd say even the elderly non-štokavians understand it very well, even though most of them would struggle to hold a speech or something like that.

Quote:Kaykavian now use 1/3 (31 %) of northwestern Croats, and Chakavian speak nearly all Adriatic islanders, peninsular Istrians and many other Croats in coastal townships, and inlanders of Gacka valley etc.

As far as I know, all of NW Croatia speaks kajkavian. The author probably meant that 31% of all Croats speak it, which isn't unreasonable.

Quote:4. Because above half citizens in Croatian capital Zagreb speak mostly Kaykavian.

I'd say much more than a half, though this isn't the traditional variety of kajkavian that was once spoken here, but some sort of kajkavian-standard Croatian koine. It preserves the local kajkavian prosody, phraseology and most important parts of syntax, while the vocabulary is overwhelmingly standard.

Quote:6. Because yet in 17th century many Croats used a cultivated language of Ikavish-Kaykavian in administration and literature accross Croatia from Adriatic (Istra, Vinodol) to north end (Drava, Medjimurje); then arbitrarily abolished by politic elimination of Zrinski & Frangipani princes (now replaced by imposed Balkanic ' Vukopis').

Yep. The Austrians didn't like it.

We must dissent.

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2013 Sep 09 12:21
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Post: #20
RE: Croatia criminalising Cyrillic script
Is this more or less correct, or is it wrong to equate the Ikavski form of Shtokavian with the old Western Shtokavian?

[Image: k8rj.png]

Either way, Chakavshtina has been decimated. sad Did the Ottomans deliberately transfer converts of more easterly origins to the Bihac area? I see the Neo-Shtokavian parts of Croatia more or less follow the old Military Frontier (as well as Slavonia), yes? Has it seen a lot of resettling in recent times to change the map again?

"And now if a whole nation fell into that? In such a case, I answer, infallibly they will return out of it. For life is no cunningly-devised deception or self deception, it is a great truth that thou art alive, that thou hast desires, necessities: neither can these subsist and satisfy themselves on delusions, but on fact. To fact, depend on it, we shall come back: to such fact, blessed or cursed, as we have wisdom for."
Thomas Carlyle
2013 Sep 09 18:11
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