Ukrainian Spring
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Osweo
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Post: #91
RE: Ukrainian Spring
As calls for secession increase in the Russophone east, the Upper Rada makes a 'conciliatory' gesture:
http://top.rbc.ru/politics/23/02/2014/906707.shtml
Russian has lost its status as a 'regional' state language. Previously, if a language was spoken by more than 10% of the population of a region, official stuff had to be available in that language. Hungarians, Tatars and Rumanians were supposed to benefit, though obviously it was mostly directed at those in the East who grew up speaking Russian.
Kind of like forcing everyone in Glasgow to apply for state benefits in Gaelic... Facepalm All while we hear in Lvov that "we will not allow a single inch of Ukrainian territory to be lost!" Maybe some sort of partition could be on the cards after all? If only some kind of half-way (non)-resolution, like Republica Srpska in Bosnia. The Western radicals make it hard for the Easterners and Crimeans to find any common cause with them.

"And now if a whole nation fell into that? In such a case, I answer, infallibly they will return out of it. For life is no cunningly-devised deception or self deception, it is a great truth that thou art alive, that thou hast desires, necessities: neither can these subsist and satisfy themselves on delusions, but on fact. To fact, depend on it, we shall come back: to such fact, blessed or cursed, as we have wisdom for."
Thomas Carlyle
2014 Feb 23 15:33
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Karl
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Post: #92
RE: Ukrainian Spring
(2014 Feb 23 15:33)Osweo Wrote:  As calls for secession increase in the Russophone east, the Upper Rada makes a 'conciliatory' gesture:
http://top.rbc.ru/politics/23/02/2014/906707.shtml
Russian has lost its status as a 'regional' state language. Previously, if a language was spoken by more than 10% of the population of a region, official stuff had to be available in that language. Hungarians, Tatars and Rumanians were supposed to benefit, though obviously it was mostly directed at those in the East who grew up speaking Russian.
Kind of like forcing everyone in Glasgow to apply for state benefits in Gaelic... Facepalm All while we hear in Lvov that "we will not allow a single inch of Ukrainian territory to be lost!" Maybe some sort of partition could be on the cards after all? If only some kind of half-way (non)-resolution, like Republica Srpska in Bosnia. The Western radicals make it hard for the Easterners and Crimeans to find any common cause with them.

Russians in Ukraine are immigrants.

It's how the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union has always worked, they try to russify absolutely everyone, so when they don't rule a region anymore, they would have a big Russian population still remaining there who would give Russia different political chances to grow influence.
2014 Feb 23 17:03
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Osweo
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Post: #93
RE: Ukrainian Spring
(2014 Feb 23 17:03)Karl Wrote:  Russians in Ukraine are immigrants.

It's how the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union has always worked, they try to russify absolutely everyone, so when they don't rule a region anymore, they would have a big Russian population still remaining there who would give Russia different political chances to grow influence.
THere's a reason I wrote 'Russophone'. There are tons of people in the east, probably the majority, who consider themselves Ukrainian, and have it written in the natsionalnost' section of their passport (different from 'citizenship', i.e. grazhdanstvo, in a world that still knows what words actually mean), but who have never spoken the dialect prevalent in the west around Lvov. It's a bit like most of Ireland, where they speak nothing but English.

Other parts in the south went straight from Tatar to Russian, with no Ukrainian as such history at all.

"And now if a whole nation fell into that? In such a case, I answer, infallibly they will return out of it. For life is no cunningly-devised deception or self deception, it is a great truth that thou art alive, that thou hast desires, necessities: neither can these subsist and satisfy themselves on delusions, but on fact. To fact, depend on it, we shall come back: to such fact, blessed or cursed, as we have wisdom for."
Thomas Carlyle
2014 Feb 23 17:09
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Mustapaita
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Post: #94
RE: Ukrainian Spring
New "interim president": Oleksandr Turchynov.

"Devil, I am devil." ― Pekka Siitoin
2014 Feb 23 17:27
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Temnozor
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Kornilov did nothing wrong
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Post: #95
RE: Ukrainian Spring
Poor Ukraine. I long ago gave up on giving a fuck about their politics, because they were so messed up and crazy all the time, but now for the first time in years I am sad about what's happening there. No matter how spiteful many of them are, Ukros are still our brothers and I hope they will survive this mess.

"Whoever says that he "belongs to his time" is only saying that he agrees with the largest number of fools at that moment." - Nicolás Gómez Dávila

[Image: ecc9v9ru.jpg]
2014 Feb 23 22:20
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Blackthorne
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Post: #96
RE: Ukrainian Spring
Tymoshenko is out of jail and is snuffling around politics again. Why does she want Ukraine to integrate with the E.U.? What has the E.U. done for any of its constituent countries except to turn them into Detroit? :O

You goddamn communist heathen, you had best sound off that you love the Virgin Mary... or I'm gonna stomp your guts out!
2014 Feb 24 06:34
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Breizhour
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Post: #97
RE: Ukrainian Spring
EU guarantees the jewess Tymochenko to be free to loot as she feels fit. Russia prefers another maffiosi instead, basically any buddy who would agree to let Ukraine keep being a russian puppet regime. But, Tymochenko and her croonies are not big problem for Moscow gang, as long as she keeps the status quo. If she, or any of her de facto ally, as the neo-fascists, hooligans or skin head loonies around "Right Sector" and others NS cults likes, try to change this status quo, Russia will encourage civil unrest and possibly, cross the border with tanks, like in Georgia.

It's pure politics, meaning cake sharing disputes and world powers are just trying to bet on the best horse available.

US are buying any option turning Ukraine in a NATO member state. CIA feels like integrating EU is a good way to achieve this. Tymochenko, to stay in office, needs a strong western back up, and to obtain this, she's ready to be opened to CIA demands such as economic EU integration or ending Crimea's port lease to Black Sea Fleet. But she's no crusader, she won't risk anything for Washington that could oust her from power. She won't go to clash on Crimean question.

Now Russia fears that the nationalists make Ukraine totally break from russian influence. They try to do so by dissolving russian political parties (Communists, and Region parties), banning pro-Russia medias and forbidding any official status for russian speaking minorities. Russia will obviously worried that the Right Sectors hooligans and their friends try to gently ethnic cleanse Eastern Ukraine.

My guess is simple : Putin will call Tymochenko, or one his emissaries, and propose her a deal : "we recognize your coup and we give you gas and money. In exchange, you do not change the equilibrium of terror and you keep your nazis out government."

I was reading "Voice of Russia", and i found a great article, explaining at how Tymochenko, "after all", was not that bad and how Putin in private admits her "qualities". Don't ask more, Moscow will seek a truce.

CIA will agree, at one condition, that Ukraine make a deal with EU on free trade. CIA betting on a long term process leading to economic integration.

Now, considering the economic shape of Ukraine, i don't see how the country can leave russian orbite. Except by heavy IMF, EU and alikes foundings. Which i doubt as those are bankrupted. That is the main reason why Putin won't make much of a story about Tymochenko come back. Actually, supporting her as the rope supports the hanged man is the best asian torture he could find. He will black mail the witch night and day until she destroys right wing nationalists. To the great relief of western medias and zionists, who are quite willing to get rid of this non invited buddy on the picture. Just as in Syria.

On this i agree with Dugin, the eurasianist : there are no "third position", because they are only two main powers. And as he pointed out : if Germany, as strong and powerful as she was in 1941 was not able to create such a "third position" between communist eurasia and thalassocratic democracies, then how could "much smaller, weaker and divided groups" could achieve such a thing ?

"Right Sector" will become the name of the floor on which all those guys will spend their prison time, after Tymochenko cleans it all to great satisfaction of eastern Ukraine, Russia, CIA and world jewry.

The funny part of the story being that the NS hooligans will have played the shabbat goyim part of the play. If i were Bernard Henri Levy, i would find this very pleasing indeed.
2014 Feb 24 09:11
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Mustapaita
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Post: #98
RE: Ukrainian Spring
What's in it for the j00s, though? Seems like Jewish oligarchs are found on both sides.

Longer video of armed police from 20.2.:




"Devil, I am devil." ― Pekka Siitoin
2014 Feb 24 09:37
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Breizhour
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Breizh

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Post: #99
RE: Ukrainian Spring
Of course jews are on both sides. But on one side (US), they decide, on the other, they cooperate for now with the Kremlin. Russia is no antisemitic regime. But where the jewish friendly power is in the better situation to impose its world agenda ? I think it is in US-EU Nato organisation.
2014 Feb 24 10:01
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Erwann
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Post: #100
RE: Ukrainian Spring




Пра́вий се́ктор (Right Sector) appeal to Russians and Russian-speakers, their enemy is imperialist Moscow, not Russians :

Quote:ПРАВИЙ СЕКТОР
Звернення до росіян та російськомовних громадян України

Спираючись на численні абсурдні міфи, антинародний режим спрямовує чималі зусилля на те, щоб очорнити “Правий сектор” та революційний рух загалом. Бійцям “Правого сектору” хочуть нав'язати образ “екстремістів”, “терористів”, “фашистів”, “русофобів”. Майстри “шептаної пропаганди” навіть починають поширювати чутки про те, що після перемоги Національної революції усі росіяни будуть депортовані з України. Мета такої інформаційної війни зрозуміла і пояснень не потребує.

У зв'язку з цим ми офіційно звертаємось до росіян, російськомовних українців та представників різних національних меншин із наступними запевненнями:

Український революційний націоналізм не є ідеологією ненависті до російського народу. Нашим ворогом є не російський народ, а імперіалістична Москва.

Наше ставлення до росіян так само, як і до інших представників національних меншин цілком вписується в методологію, запропоновану Степаном Бандерою: побратимське до тих, хто разом із нами бореться за державність української нації; толерантне до тих, хто визнає наше право бути господарями власної долі на своїй землі; вороже до тих, хто це право заперечує.

Ми вважаємо, що дерусифікація України — цілком справедливе і необхідне явище. Поняття дерусифікації означає, що етнічні українці повернуться до власної мови, історії, ідентичності. При цьому ми розуміємо, що процес дерусифікації не може бути форсованим. Водночас ми відстоюємо право усіх національних меншин (в т.ч. й росіян) на плекання власної ідентичності та культури. Ми не сплутуємо це право із діяльністю іноземних шовіністичних, імперських центрів, діяльність яких має бути припиненою.

Виразним підтвердженням щирості наших слів є те, що у загонах “Правого сектору” зараз пліч-о-пліч ведуть боротьбі і ті, хто говорить українською, і ті, хто говорить російською, ті, хто говорить білоруською, і українці, і окремі неукраїнці. В тому числі в лавах “Правого сектору” пройшов бойовий вишкіл не один російський патріот, котрий приїхав з Росії, щоб підтримати нашу боротьбу і перенести її вогнище на терени власної вітчизни.

Закликаємо усіх громадян України незалежно від національності та мови спілкування долучатися до революційної боротьби. Разом — усунемо злочинний режим, котрий експлуатує і нищить українське суспільство, не дивлячись на національність того чи іншого громадянина.

Політрада “Правого сектору”

Source
2014 Feb 24 11:56
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