Ukrainian Spring
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Mustapaita
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Post: #81
RE: Ukrainian Spring
I don't dare think what would happen if civil war really broke out.

"Devil, I am devil." ― Pekka Siitoin
2014 Feb 20 20:46
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Post: #82
RE: Ukrainian Spring
Is it a coincidence that Russia got into a conflict with Georgia during the 2008 Summer Olympics and now "the West" supports a conflict involving Russia during the Winter Games in Sochi?

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2014 Feb 20 21:27
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Dussander
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Post: #83
RE: Ukrainian Spring
(2014 Feb 20 20:46)Mustapaita Wrote:  I don't dare think what would happen if civil war really broke out.

Worst case scenario? We all die.

We must dissent.

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2014 Feb 20 22:38
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Gamera
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Post: #84
RE: Ukrainian Spring
Are the conditions really there for a Civil War, though? Maybe our buddy Whiteruthenian can illustrate?

“I'm an economist. I've even got a PhD in Economics. Yet, I'm a good person, I swear!” - Rafael Correa, president of Ecuador
2014 Feb 20 23:15
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Post: #85
RE: Ukrainian Spring
(2014 Feb 20 20:46)Mustapaita Wrote:  I don't dare think what would happen if civil war really broke out.

I've been chatting with one of my relatives in Donetsk and she tends to think that Ukraine is more fragmented than people are led to believe. In the east of the country, there are far less Russian sympathisers than has been reported and conversely, it's the opposite for the west of the country. I think there can be a lot to be read from this.
2014 Feb 20 23:19
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Mustapaita
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Post: #86
RE: Ukrainian Spring
An interview with Ukrainian antifascists: http://www.timothyeastman.com/uncategori...n-ukraine/

Some gems:

Quote:Pravy Sektor got too much attention after the first violence, the media gave them popularity and they started to think they’re cool guys. Pravy existed before but now it’s growing and attracting a lot of new people.

S: After this Pravy will have more young guys. They have money to make propaganda, uniforms, they’re getting more attention and they look cool.

M: The Ukraine is a patriarchal country so to be a strong man who’s fighting is a good aim.

Quote:M: People have these chants: “Glory Ukraine,” “Glory to Heroes,” “Death to Enemies.” But who are these heroes, who are these enemies? I don’t think they have any idea. “Ukraine Above All” is one, just like they used to chant in Germany.

Quote:M: These nationalists are here not for rights but for nation

"Devil, I am devil." ― Pekka Siitoin
2014 Feb 21 10:06
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Phlegethon
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Post: #87
RE: Ukrainian Spring
If the Ukraine split up that would be the economic end. The west could live on EU money until they lose interest after a while while eastern and southern Ukraine would become some eastern central Europe version of Wallonia - an industrial ruin park which a location scout could suggest for zombie movies or The Day After scenarios.


Not in haunts of marble chill,
Temples drear where ancients trod,—
Nay, in oaks on woody hill
Lives and moves the German God.

2014 Feb 21 10:47
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W. R.
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Post: #88
RE: Ukrainian Spring
(2014 Feb 20 23:15)Gamera Wrote:  Are the conditions really there for a Civil War, though? Maybe our buddy Whiteruthenian can illustrate?

No, the army is made up of Ukrainians, who are unwilling to shoot at their people, even if Yanukovych gave them the order. It looks like he is not going to.

Quote:Ukraine: Yanukovich accepts calls for snap election to defuse crisis
16:03 • 21.02.14

Ukraine’s embattled president Viktor Yanukovich moved on Friday to defuse the country’s worst crisis since independence by accepting calls for snap presidential elections and constitutional changes that would curb powers of the presidency, FT.com reported.

<...>

“I am initiating snap presidential elections ... and a return to the 2004 constitution with a shift of authority towards a parliamentary republic,” he said. He also called for formation of a “national government of trust” to “preserve the lives of people, peace and calm on our land.”

SOURCE

[...] just as it is not left unto us to choose our ancestors, so we may not choose our nation; we can only fulfil, or not fulfil, the obligations that come from being a member of our people’.
© Dr. Jan Stankievič ‘From the History of Belarus’

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2014 Feb 21 14:21
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Post: #89
RE: Ukrainian Spring
Ukraine Protestors Seize Kiev As President Flees

Ukraine parliament ousts Yanukovich, Tymoshenko freed

Former Interior Minister Zakharchenko caught trying to flee Ukraine

Leaders in east Ukraine vote to take control of their areas

"Devil, I am devil." ― Pekka Siitoin
2014 Feb 23 09:08
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Post: #90
RE: Ukrainian Spring
When I saw that pathetic has-been Tymoshenko in her wheelchair I had to think of





Not in haunts of marble chill,
Temples drear where ancients trod,—
Nay, in oaks on woody hill
Lives and moves the German God.

2014 Feb 23 12:54
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