Russia bans all U.S. food, EU fruit and vegetables in sanctions response; NATO fears
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Eldritch
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RE: Russia bans all U.S. food ,...
(2014 Aug 09 18:17)Karl Wrote:  Trade with Russia has always been unstable, even for pro-Russian countries like Finland as for some reason it joined the EU while quite often showing sentiment more akin to the CIS countries.

For this argument to break out of the Karlsphere into the reality the rest of us inhabit and to be able to function in it, you'd have to find a way to render the more or less equal % of Estonia's total exports that go to Russia insignificant.

Being able to differentiate between statements made by government ministers (which I bet you cannot quote directly) and private companies selling their products to people who want to buy them, EVEN IF THESE PEOPLE ARE LOCATED IN RUSSIA ( EekEekEek ), might also improve things.

I like to look at the human self-model as a neurocomputational weapon, a certain data structure that the brain can activate from time to time.

Thomas Metzinger
2014 Aug 10 20:57
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Karl
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RE: Russia bans all U.S. food, EU fruit and vegetables in sanctions response; NATO fears
(2014 Aug 10 20:57)Eldritch Wrote:  
(2014 Aug 09 18:17)Karl Wrote:  Trade with Russia has always been unstable, even for pro-Russian countries like Finland as for some reason it joined the EU while quite often showing sentiment more akin to the CIS countries.

For this argument to break out of the Karlsphere into the reality the rest of us inhabit and to be able to function in it, you'd have to find a way to render the more or less equal % of Estonia's total exports that go to Russia insignificant.

Being able to differentiate between statements made by government ministers (which I bet you cannot quote directly) and private companies selling their products to people who want to buy them, EVEN IF THESE PEOPLE ARE LOCATED IN RUSSIA ( EekEekEek ), might also improve things.

Estonia has had to reorientate its trade in the 1920s and the 1990s, because trade on the Russian direction stopped.

That's one of the reasons why Estonian meat and some other food products were quite well known in Western-Europe (like the UK) and seen as quality produce.

Looking at 2014, there are some products that still mostly go to Russia from Estonia (and also Finland), like milk, dairy products overall and fish. Transporting dairy products a long distance is just quite expensive, so it makes sense.

My point is, if Finland is so worried about its trade with Russia and it's "brotherly" relationship with Russia, it should step out of the EU, it shouldn't have joined it in the first place.

Your foreign minister, Tuomioja, has made some pretty retarded statements even for Western-European leaders. Now in the recent months when the situation in Ukraine has worsened even more and after the plane was shot down, he is somehow back to reality.

Purely looking at your foreign minister, there is no other country in the EU that would be as pro-russian as Finland.

There's a saying in Estonian: "Liiga suur tükk ajab suu lõhki". It means that taking a too big piece (of food) will split your mouth.

That's what's happening to Finland, it's trying to be an "ally/friend" of Russia while being a part of the West at the same time, it just won't work. After joining the EU, that door was closed. You're big friends with Russia, but still get 100% of their sanctions as you're in the EU and part of the West.
2014 Aug 11 09:21
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Aptrgangr
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RE: Russia bans all U.S. food, EU fruit and vegetables in sanctions response; NATO fears
[Image: t653cdey.jpg]

http://vestnikkavkaza.net/news/economy/58501.html

"The secret to happiness is freedom... And the secret to freedom is courage."
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2014 Aug 11 10:39
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Osweo (11-08-2014)
Eldritch
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RE: Russia bans all U.S. food, EU fruit and vegetables in sanctions response; NATO fears
Quote:statements made by government ministers (which I bet you cannot quote directly)

(2014 Aug 11 09:21)Karl Wrote:  Your foreign minister, Tuomioja, has made some pretty retarded statements even for Western-European leaders. Now in the recent months when the situation in Ukraine has worsened even more and after the plane was shot down, he is somehow back to reality.

QED.

EDIT:

Or rather, QED.

I like to look at the human self-model as a neurocomputational weapon, a certain data structure that the brain can activate from time to time.

Thomas Metzinger
2014 Aug 11 12:14
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RE: Russia bans all U.S. food, EU fruit and vegetables in sanctions response; NATO fears
So what did "Erki" say that was so retarded? What exactly about Finland is "pro-Russian"? Not being anti-Russian enough?

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2014 Aug 11 13:54
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RE: Russia bans all U.S. food, EU fruit and vegetables in sanctions response; NATO fears
(2014 Aug 11 12:14)Eldritch Wrote:  
Quote:statements made by government ministers (which I bet you cannot quote directly)

(2014 Aug 11 09:21)Karl Wrote:  Your foreign minister, Tuomioja, has made some pretty retarded statements even for Western-European leaders. Now in the recent months when the situation in Ukraine has worsened even more and after the plane was shot down, he is somehow back to reality.

QED.

EDIT:

Or rather, QED.
(2014 Aug 11 13:54)Mustapaita Wrote:  So what did "Erki" say that was so retarded? What exactly about Finland is "pro-Russian"? Not being anti-Russian enough?

He has been all over the Estonian media since the start of the Ukrainian conflict, because of his rather pro-russian statements which started to change after the plane was shot down, thus most of the stuff is in Estonian.

There are also articles in English:

European economists surprised at Tuomioja's, pro-Russian views:

http://www.helsinkitimes.fi/finland/finl...ussia.html

Tuomioja visiting his best friend during the height of the Ukrainian crisis, when Western powers don't want to have anything to do with Putin or his foreign ministry:

http://www.ulkoasiainministerio.fi/Publi...ntentlan=2

This one is very recent, 2 days old. Tuomioja, Finland's foreign minister talks about easing the EU sanctions on Russia:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/08/08...OO20140808

Putin has a voice in the EU and that is Finland, or the current foreign minister of Finland if we are precise.

Tuomioja's pro-russian ideas go against the consensus in the EU and among Western powers.

Oh and also, Tuomioja also insulted Toomas Hendrik Ilves in the late of June, in the Finnish media, when talking about his views (same as of the West, when talking about Russia).

That guy has been a small-scale celebrity in the Estonian media for the last months with his remarks. Practically all of his articles/interviews are translated into Estonian and published in the Estonian media.

I'm not your slave, just go to postimees.ee or delfi.ee, use the search function with the terms "Tuomioja" etc. find articles, success. If you're not bright enough to understand even a bit of Estonian, then use google translate.

I'm guessing that the Finnish people here, on this forum, are more nationalistic than average Finns.

What do you guys think about the rather pro-Russian stance of the current Finnish government? Currently Finland is distancing itself from the EU, at least trying to do so, to uphold "good relations" with Russia.
(This post was last modified: 2014 Aug 11 15:23 by Karl.)
2014 Aug 11 15:21
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RE: Russia bans all U.S. food, EU fruit and vegetables in sanctions response; NATO fears
Every European country should uphold "good relations" with Russia, and the bitterness of a few little ex-satellite states in the Baltics is no use to the rest of us at all. If Finnish politicians are acting responsibly here, trying to preserve Finnish workers' export industries, good luck to them. Tons of workers and business-owners throughout the rest of the EU could only wish for such enlightened rulers.

Quote:Video: Russia food ban a ‘nightmare’ for French farmers

Latest update : 2014-08-08
French food trader Jean Selverro will lose €200 thousand a month because of Russia’s import bans on food from the European Union, announced this week. Normally, 90 percent of his apples and pears are exported to Russia.

“I’m shocked,” he told FRANCE 24. “I think it’s a nightmare I need to wake up from. It’s just not possible. I have to tell my employees, some who have been with me for nine years. Tomorrow or the day after, it’s over.”

A truck loaded with 22 tonnes of Selverro’s fruit now has to be emptied.

President Xavier Beulin of a French farm union said the Russian import ban could seriously affect France’s fruit and vegetable industry. “Russia is a significant market for us and one that grows by about 10 percent each year. It’s not trivial,” he told a European television network.

But it is not just fruit and vegetables. At the Rungis food market outside of Paris, cheese exporter Sabah Quartau was working the phones trying to determine the fate of her company’s next shipment. She has been told that trucks transporting food are likely to be stopped at the border.

“The merchandise inside [a truck nearing the border] will now need new clients before it reaches its expiry date,” she says. Last year, her company’s exports to Russia totaled €2 million.

The US, Canada and the European Union together will take more than a $17.5 billion hit from the one-year ban, imposed by Russia in retaliation for Western sanctions on Russia over the war in Ukraine.

The United States exported about $1.2 billion in food and agricultural goods to Russia last year, less than one percent of total U.S. agriculture exports. The EU exported about 11.8 billion euros ($15.8 billion) to Russia, about 10 percent of its total agriculture exports. Canada’s agricultural exports to Russia amounted to $563 million Canadian dollars ($515 million) in 2012.

In the EU, France, Poland, the Netherlands and Germany will feel much of the loss. France sends 1.2 billion euros ($1.6 billion) worth of agricultural products to Russia annually. The Netherlands send 1.5 billion euros ($2 billion), Germany 1.6 billion euros ($2.1 billion) and Poland 1.6 billion euros ($2.1 billion).

Russia’s ban on Polish apples, announced last week, led to a popular campaign in Poland, where people were urged to drink more cider and eat more apples. A widely used slogan was, “An apple a day keeps Putin away!”

http://www.france24.com/en/20140808-russ...nightmare/
(FRANCE 24 with AP, AFP)

"And now if a whole nation fell into that? In such a case, I answer, infallibly they will return out of it. For life is no cunningly-devised deception or self deception, it is a great truth that thou art alive, that thou hast desires, necessities: neither can these subsist and satisfy themselves on delusions, but on fact. To fact, depend on it, we shall come back: to such fact, blessed or cursed, as we have wisdom for."
Thomas Carlyle
2014 Aug 11 17:46
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Mustapaita
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Russia bans all U.S. food, EU fruit and vegetables in sanctions response; NATO fears
But you didn't answer my question: what is it that "Erki" said that has gotten you so worked up? Finland has good bilateral relations with Russia and it would make sense to keep them that way if possible. Simple as that.

The Finnish government is not pro-Russian. Not even Tuomioja is pro-Russian. But if you want some contrast, go see what our Prime Minister (Tuomioja's boss) has said (or tweeted) about the matter. Rolleyes

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2014 Aug 11 17:54
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Karl
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RE: Russia bans all U.S. food, EU fruit and vegetables in sanctions response; NATO fears
So, this is a pro-Russian forum like Loki's run TA, nice. You two should merge. Loki loves Russia and Putin just like you guys.

Talking about Finland, not criticising Russia while it takes over Crimea and sends weapons to the terrorists in eastern-Ukraine, just to uphold "good relations" is pro-russian.
2014 Aug 11 19:07
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RE:
(2014 Aug 11 19:07)Karl Wrote:  So, this is a pro-Russian forum like Loki's run TA, nice. You two should merge. Loki loves Russia and Putin just like you guys.

Forum Europa is just pro-European.
Many of us support Ukrainian independence. But it's quite clear that Ukrainians are just the pawns of an American geopolitical game and Ukraine won't be better, the oligarchs are still leading this country.
Like Henry Kissinger said, Ukraine should be more like Finland, a bridge between the west and the east.
2014 Aug 11 20:30
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