Poll: Would you consider yourself to be a Pan-Europeanist?
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Pan-European Preservationism by Ted Sallis
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Temnozor
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Post: #11
RE: Pan-European Preservationism by Ted Sallis
Sort of, but that's probably because I feel way too cosmopolitan for a proper nationalist, anyway. I feel like I can relate to most European peoples and could live almost anywhere on the continent without feeling out of place*, but that's not the only thing. Most European nations are being led to the abyss by an internationalist elite with an internationalist ideology, multi-national networks etc. Out of purely non-sentimental, practical considerations, I think that countering that is only possible (if at all) by playing on the same level. So, thinking on a continential scale is more appealing to me than thinking on a national one only. But that's geopolitics, not identity politics.

However, I don't like the word "preservationism". Are we striving to become a museum or a reservation?

*except in Estonia. I will never set a foot into Estonia. Tongue

"Whoever says that he "belongs to his time" is only saying that he agrees with the largest number of fools at that moment." - Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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2015 May 11 23:08
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Post: #12
RE: Pan-European Preservationism by Ted Sallis
(2015 May 11 23:08)Temnozor Wrote:  Sort of, but that's probably because I feel way too cosmopolitan for a proper nationalist, anyway. I feel like I can relate to most European peoples and could live almost anywhere on the continent without feeling out of place*, but that's not the only thing. Most European nations are being led to the abyss by an internationalist elite with an internationalist ideology, multi-national networks etc. Out of purely non-sentimental, practical considerations, I think that countering that is only possible (if at all) by playing on the same level. So, thinking on a continential scale is more appealing to me than thinking on a national one only. But that's geopolitics, not identity politics.

However, I don't like the word "preservationism". Are we striving to become a museum or a reservation?

*except in Estonia. I will never set a foot into Estonia. Tongue


Nice post. Thank you for replying Temnozor.

You bring up a very valid point with respect to the concept of "preservationism" with which I entirely agree. I also think that "preservationism" has different not so much meanings but rather connotations depending on which continent one's audience primarily comes from. I see big differences between Europeans and (North) Americans on that score, generally-speaking. The former leans towards a healthier aspect of culturalism as opposed to the latter's low regard for culture and higher regard for racialism. But either one leads one to ask the greater question: What exactly is being preserved? In some real sense, preservationism (as practised on the internet via forums, at least) simply ghettoises groups which leads us to nonsense such as certain groups believing that their currency is better than some other groups, for instance, Protestants (especially English ones) who believe themselves superior to Catholics; the English believing that they are superior to the Irish; Germanics believing that they are superior to Slavs...the list of stupidity of superiority and supremacy goes on....

In many circles preservationism is little more than whacked-out "white nationalism", another misguided imperialist notion at best. It's an assimilative strategy utilised by the beehive-minded. It lacks respect for a working model of human biodiversity in its cultural forms. Too often its methods simply perpetuate paranoia and its twin fear-mongering, looking for some boogeyman under the bed more often that not. In the end, imperialism by any other name is still imperialism.

But you've given me food for thought in terms of how a more cosmopolitan regard overall is beneficial. I agree with you there that in terms of geopolitics it is probably the wiser course. I do think that this is more easily done in continental Europe than anywhere else though, as compared to North America, let's say. I'm not sure about South America; Gam would be better able to speak to this.

Hmm and about identity politics: this is probably the greatest culprit of the degeneration of our times. It permeates all kind of decision-making on all kinds of different levels, most of which we are barely aware of. I'm beginning to think that it's one of the greatest ills of our time. Identity politics and progressive policies make for hazardous bedfellows. And these are the interesting times in which we live.

Thanks again for this post. It's been very thought-provoking for me.

~Be the Virtuous Man or Woman you are meant to be.~
2015 May 12 17:29
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Gamera
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Post: #13
RE: Pan-European Preservationism by Ted Sallis
(2015 May 11 23:08)Temnozor Wrote:  Out of purely non-sentimental, practical considerations, I think that countering that is only possible (if at all) by playing on the same level. So, thinking on a continential scale is more appealing to me than thinking on a national one only. But that's geopolitics, not identity politics.

Yep. I find this to be the most important aspect that should bring European nations together as one: their plight against international oligarchies, who have usurped the legitimacy of European democratic institutions in order to foster their own material interests. Separately, nothing will ever be achieved against these supranational entities, who are instrumental in this form of nations' oppression. Active consent must always be battled for at a local level, at least initially, though.... which makes the formation of an organic Pan-european political project a very complex process.

Now, if it comes to identity politics, then that's a much more controversial issue.

“I'm an economist. I've even got a PhD in Economics. Yet, I'm a good person, I swear!” - Rafael Correa, president of Ecuador
2015 May 12 18:32
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Post: #14
RE: Pan-European Preservationism by Ted Sallis
I would say that yes, I am pan-Europeanist. We are a collection of related nations and cultures with clear cultural and ethnic markers that separate Europe from not-Europe. In bygone centuries it was possible for single European nations to form considerable empires overseas and force their will on vast areas of the globe. Those days are gone and for Europeans to maintain a voice in world affairs there must be co-operation.

The EU is from the get go built on the "jacobin" nation state model and the modernist, statist view on ethnogenesis. They don't want to cultivate an over-arching culture, they plan(ned) to engineer a nation into being that would usurp all European nations.

"Devil, I am devil." ― Pekka Siitoin
2015 May 12 18:54
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Post: #15
RE: Pan-European Preservationism by Ted Sallis
I thought that's tautological given the name of the forum and based on my past knowledge of the members here Tongue

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2015 May 13 00:25
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Temnozor
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Post: #16
RE: Pan-European Preservationism by Ted Sallis
(2015 May 12 17:29)Aemma Wrote:  Hmm and about identity politics: this is probably the greatest culprit of the degeneration of our times. It permeates all kind of decision-making on all kinds of different levels, most of which we are barely aware of. I'm beginning to think that it's one of the greatest ills of our time. Identity politics and progressive policies make for hazardous bedfellows. And these are the interesting times in which we live.

I think you have some different understanding of the term "identity politics" than I do. What I tried to say was, that while I consider a European unification useful in terms of ideology, economy and so forth, I'm not quite sure what to make of "Pan-Europeanism" in terms of cultural identity. It's a romantic notion like Pan-Slavism, Pan-Germanism, Pan-Romanism etc. and not necessarily a bad one, however, unlike with the geopolitical side of the coin, I don't quite know whether it would be in some sort beneficial to strive for cultural and spiritual unity on the continent as well. That's why I'm not quite willing to call myself a "Pan-Europeanist".

"Whoever says that he "belongs to his time" is only saying that he agrees with the largest number of fools at that moment." - Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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2015 May 13 10:53
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Post: #17
RE: Pan-European Preservationism by Ted Sallis
(2015 May 13 10:53)Temnozor Wrote:  
(2015 May 12 17:29)Aemma Wrote:  Hmm and about identity politics: this is probably the greatest culprit of the degeneration of our times. It permeates all kind of decision-making on all kinds of different levels, most of which we are barely aware of. I'm beginning to think that it's one of the greatest ills of our time. Identity politics and progressive policies make for hazardous bedfellows. And these are the interesting times in which we live.

I think you have some different understanding of the term "identity politics" than I do. What I tried to say was, that while I consider a European unification useful in terms of ideology, economy and so forth, I'm not quite sure what to make of "Pan-Europeanism" in terms of cultural identity. It's a romantic notion like Pan-Slavism, Pan-Germanism, Pan-Romanism etc. and not necessarily a bad one, however, unlike with the geopolitical side of the coin, I don't quite know whether it would be in some sort beneficial to strive for cultural and spiritual unity on the continent as well. That's why I'm not quite willing to call myself a "Pan-Europeanist".

No, no. I quite got your meaning and what you were saying. Smile

Your post got me thinking and I was just thinking out loud I suppose as to other connections I was making.

It's all good. Smile

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2015 May 13 15:41
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Post: #18
RE: Pan-European Preservationism by Ted Sallis
I care about the other peoples of Europe. But my own country, England / Britain comes by far 1st. Then related western European countries such as France or Germany. Then the rest. And then there's some Europeans I don't care about at all such as the Albanians.

I'm not in the same camp as the Germanic supremacists who want to invade Russia and kill millions of Slavs, though (yes they do exist on places like Stormfront).
2015 May 14 18:35
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Post: #19
RE: Pan-European Preservationism by Ted Sallis
(2015 May 14 18:35)Godyfa Wrote:  I'm not in the same camp as the Germanic supremacists who want to invade Russia and kill millions of Slavs, though (yes they do exist on places like Stormfront).

That would end up so well for them. oh lol! oh lol! oh lol!

DžDž
2015 May 14 23:11
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Post: #20
RE: Pan-European Preservationism by Ted Sallis
The unity of Europe used to have to do with it, the mother-continent, being called Christendom or the Roman Empire or...

You goddamn communist heathen, you had best sound off that you love the Virgin Mary... or I'm gonna stomp your guts out!
2015 May 15 08:54
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