Bernie Sanders: America Should Look More Like Scandinavia
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W. R.
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Post: #31
RE: Bernie Sanders: America Should Look More Like Scandinavia
(2015 May 04 21:32)Surtr Kvlt Wrote:  Yeah man fuck the poor/unemployed/underemployed/underpaid amirite? Rolleyes

The rising wealth inequality has increased the need for welfare spending.

Europeans should learn again to rely on themselves and on each other (children on their parents, parents on their children), rather than on the government. It had always been so before welfare states came into existence.

***

Bernie's campaign ad:



[...] just as it is not left unto us to choose our ancestors, so we may not choose our nation; we can only fulfil, or not fulfil, the obligations that come from being a member of our people’.
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2015 Nov 03 08:07
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Post: #32
RE: Bernie Sanders: America Should Look More Like Scandinavia
(2015 Nov 03 08:07)W. R. Wrote:  Europeans should learn again to rely on themselves and on each other (children on their parents, parents on their children), rather than on the government. It had always been so before welfare states came into existence.

This! State welfare provides a faceless, non-communal means to support people. Is it any wonder that societies with high welfare also are very alienated? If we allow the government to become our steward and ourselves to focus on activities that keep us apart, then can we really blame it for being a bad caretaker? The parliament and government members could not be any better people than the rest of us, since they are elected from the general population.

I can not see any purely political solution answering the need to bring genuine care and community values to Western nations: both socialism and libertarianism by themselves can be, and almost always are, very demoralizing and corrupting to the social fabric.
2015 Nov 03 08:39
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W. R. (03-11-2015)
W. R.
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Post: #33
RE: Bernie Sanders: America Should Look More Like Scandinavia
(2015 Nov 03 08:39)Artturi Wrote:  I can not see any purely political solution answering the need to bring genuine care and community values to Western nations: both socialism and libertarianism by themselves can be, and almost always are, very demoralizing and corrupting to the social fabric.

Ask me. ^_^ I know the answer:

1. Socialist policies towards children (public money can be used to make sure all children have the opportunity to be successful in life: good schools, cheap meals, out-of-school activities for all). Such policies have a bonus: in such a way selfish taxpayers that have chosen not to have children would be ‘punished’: de facto their money would be redistributed to other people's children.

2. Good old capitalism for adults. Because it works.

3. State-encouraged de-urbanisation. Possession of a piece of land means a lot. Even if it is just a dacha. Among other things, it's like an insurance that you have somewhere to retreat if just everything in your life goes wrong.

The discussion about taxes and welfare made me think of an experiment Temnozor mentioned a while ago. It's about an attempt to create basically a ‘welfare state’ for mice:

(2013 Oct 20 20:43)Temnozor Wrote:  
Quote:It was here that his most famous experiment, the mouse universe, was created.[1] In July 1968 four pairs of mice were introduced into the Utopian universe. The universe was a 9-foot (2.7 m) square metal pen with 54-inch-high (1.4 m) sides. Each side had four groups of four vertical, wire mesh “tunnels”. The “tunnels” gave access to nesting boxes, food hoppers, and water dispensers. There was no shortage of food or water or nesting material. There were no predators. The only adversity was the limit on space.

Initially the population grew rapidly, doubling every 55 days. The population reached 620 by day 315, after which the population growth dropped markedly. The last surviving birth was on day 600. This period between day 315 and day 600 saw a breakdown in social structure and in normal social behavior. Among the aberrations in behavior were the following: expulsion of young before weaning was complete, wounding of young, inability of dominant males to maintain the defense of their territory and females, aggressive behavior of females, passivity of non-dominant males with increased attacks on each other which were not defended against. After day 600 the social breakdown continued and the population declined toward extinction. During this period females ceased to reproduce. Their male counterparts withdrew completely, never engaging in courtship or fighting. They ate, drank, slept, and groomed themselves – all solitary pursuits. Sleek, healthy coats and an absence of scars characterized these males. They were dubbed “the beautiful ones”.

The conclusions drawn from this experiment were that when all available space is taken and all social roles filled, competition and the stresses experienced by the individuals will result in a total breakdown in complex social behaviors, ultimately resulting in the demise of the population.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Ca...xperiments

[...] just as it is not left unto us to choose our ancestors, so we may not choose our nation; we can only fulfil, or not fulfil, the obligations that come from being a member of our people’.
© Dr. Jan Stankievič ‘From the History of Belarus’

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2015 Nov 07 11:08
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Post: #34
RE: Bernie Sanders: America Should Look More Like Scandinavia
(2015 Nov 07 11:08)W. R. Wrote:  selfish taxpayers
Can't say I've ever met one. I know a lot of selfish tax-dodgers, though... ;)
Quote:3. State-encouraged de-urbanisation. Possession of a piece of land means a lot. Even if it is just a dacha. Among other things, it's like an insurance that you have somewhere to retreat if just everything in your life goes wrong.
I absolutely concur with the general thrust of this. It would help to keep people healthier in so many different ways. I wouldn't go so far as to call it de-urbanisation, though. The current neo-liberal mess is more like de-urbanisation. Towns and cities are not what they once were, and need to become again - buzzing centres of regional life, culture and economy. They've swollen and imploded, with their centres too often becoming rotten cores of violence and squalor.

"And now if a whole nation fell into that? In such a case, I answer, infallibly they will return out of it. For life is no cunningly-devised deception or self deception, it is a great truth that thou art alive, that thou hast desires, necessities: neither can these subsist and satisfy themselves on delusions, but on fact. To fact, depend on it, we shall come back: to such fact, blessed or cursed, as we have wisdom for."
Thomas Carlyle
2015 Nov 07 12:44
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RE: Bernie Sanders: America Should Look More Like Scandinavia



"The secret to happiness is freedom... And the secret to freedom is courage."
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2016 Apr 02 17:48
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RE: Bernie Sanders: America Should Look More Like Scandinavia
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RE: Bernie Sanders: America Should Look More Like Scandinavia
Bernie Sanders: America Should Look More Like Scandinavia

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2016 Apr 03 06:05
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Post: #38
RE: Bernie Sanders: America Should Look More Like Scandinavia
The Nordic welfare state model wouldn't work in a multicultural and multiracial federation anyway. If states like Vermont or Maine were independent countries, they probably could implement it successfully.

Btw I'm hoping that Trump and Sanders get their respective parties' nominations, but I'm also hoping that afterwards thy'll both lose the election.

I like to look at the human self-model as a neurocomputational weapon, a certain data structure that the brain can activate from time to time.

Thomas Metzinger
2016 Apr 03 23:29
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