Civil War in Iraq and as-Sham
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Mustapaita
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Post: #1201
RE: Civil War in Iraq and as-Sham
Quote:You just want to believe the MSM yet again, I guess.

Why would I want to do that? I just don't buy flimsy false flag claims. It's not what I want to believe, belief doesn't really enter into it. It's what I find more likely. You trying to ascertain an agenda or personal motivation on my part is getting tiresome.

I'm not decided (because I don't KNOW) but judged by what we know, I find it more likely the government is to blame. This most recent attack we don't really know much about as we haven't seen any kind of investigation.

Quote: It wasn't established in a single case that the SAA has ever used CWs. The UN investigations never came to a definite conclusion and all indications point to the terrorists.

What indications pointed to the terrorists? It hasn't been conclusively established in a single case that rebels used chemical weapons. :/

"Devil, I am devil." ― Pekka Siitoin
2017 Apr 07 19:04
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Blackthorne
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Post: #1202
RE: Civil War in Iraq and as-Sham
One doesn't find nerve gas at the corner market and terrorist bands lack the logistical capability of storing and safely transporting CWs unless they're proxies for a nation that does have said ability.

Assad isn't a stupid man I assume and he would know very well what would come his way if he ordered his soldiers to gas civilians.

You goddamn communist heathen, you had best sound off that you love the Virgin Mary... or I'm gonna stomp your guts out!
2017 Apr 07 19:11
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Blackthorne
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Post: #1203
RE: Civil War in Iraq and as-Sham
War = shekels

'Raytheon, the company that makes the Tomahawk missiles used in the air strikes on Syria by the United States, is rising in early stock trading Friday.'

http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/07/investin...d=36296275

Raytheon also produces those TOW missiles those ISIS goons have a never-ending abundance of btw. thumbs up

You goddamn communist heathen, you had best sound off that you love the Virgin Mary... or I'm gonna stomp your guts out!
2017 Apr 07 19:45
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Osweo
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Post: #1204
RE: Civil War in Iraq and as-Sham
The only reason to use chemical weapons now would be to test Trump, to see if the Syrian government forces could get away with it in future. That they might wish to use such weapons could be motivated by troop shortages and low morale after an agonising ... um, HOW many years of misery is it now? I could fully sympathise with that, in terms of a desire to get this final stage of the war over with.

However, that would imply decision making at the highest levels, and I refuse to believe the Syrian government are that stupid. Perhaps Assad has been sidelined by the military over the course of the conflict (I know nothing about his position within the regime, but this is the sort of thing that can happen in a civil war, I'm just guessing), but are the generals really this stupid? There's probably a fair few older men from the bad old days, but years of war must surely have ensured some semblance of meritocracy in the command structure, no, perhaps especially of younger men more comfortable with more modern tactics and more aware of the role of media spin and PR in the development of the international situation?

"And now if a whole nation fell into that? In such a case, I answer, infallibly they will return out of it. For life is no cunningly-devised deception or self deception, it is a great truth that thou art alive, that thou hast desires, necessities: neither can these subsist and satisfy themselves on delusions, but on fact. To fact, depend on it, we shall come back: to such fact, blessed or cursed, as we have wisdom for."
Thomas Carlyle
2017 Apr 07 19:50
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Temnozor
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Post: #1205
RE: Civil War in Iraq and as-Sham
(2017 Apr 07 19:04)Mustapaita Wrote:  Why would I want to do that? I just don't buy flimsy false flag claims. It's not what I want to believe, belief doesn't really enter into it. It's what I find more likely.

(1) Syria surrendered all of its CMs in 2014. That's not to say that chlorine bombs are hard to make (the reason why terrorists use them), but that the Syrians know full well of the consequences they will face for using CMs. There is no way Assad or any general has authorised this and no way this was a maverick stunt either.

(2) The Americans and the press claim that it was a sarin attack, which is an obvious lie: (a) because of the relatively low death count (if it can be believed), and (b) because of the heaps of photos where we have seen "White Helmets" walking in the affected areas with just flip-flops and rubber gloves for protection. Sarin would have killed them too. There is also a lot of photographic evidence that suggests these whole scenes were staged.

(3) Chemical attacks are inefficient. Militarily speaking, they would be used to disperse entrenched enemy troops, to cause panic and to clear a densely defended area. Nothing of this is applicable to the Hama area where the attack took place.

(4) There was literally nothing to gain by this. The SAA is winning on all fronts and has zero reason to use inefficient weapons that would highly increase the risk of a U.S. – NATO intervention. Especially since the narrativе is that they bombed civilians for no apparent reason.

Quote:You trying to ascertain an agenda or personal motivation on my part is getting tiresome.

That's because I assume that you are intelligent enough to not fall for obvious manipulations.

Quote:I'm not decided (because I don't KNOW) but judged by what we know, I find it more likely the government is to blame.


What is your reasoning for this?

"Whoever says that he "belongs to his time" is only saying that he agrees with the largest number of fools at that moment." - Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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2017 Apr 07 20:07
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Blackthorne
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Post: #1206
RE: Civil War in Iraq and as-Sham
'What is your reasoning for this?'

The bought-and-paid-for lamestream media says Assad gassed his own people. If a media whore says it's true then it must be true!

You goddamn communist heathen, you had best sound off that you love the Virgin Mary... or I'm gonna stomp your guts out!
2017 Apr 07 20:11
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Temnozor
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Post: #1207
RE: Civil War in Iraq and as-Sham
Quote:Arabs praise 'Abu Ivanka' aka Trump for Syria strike and #AmericaIsOverParty fears army draft

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-39526653

Ivanka huakbar.

"Whoever says that he "belongs to his time" is only saying that he agrees with the largest number of fools at that moment." - Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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2017 Apr 07 21:37
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Aptrgangr
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Post: #1208
RE: Civil War in Iraq and as-Sham
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYOMEDK_uVs

So if that's the Syrian air force's attack as it is claimed, then there's a little problem: sarin is combustible and never used with explosives.
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/201...dence-far/

http://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/12004...e-of-glory

http://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/12003...p120041958

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2017 Apr 08 02:23
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Mustapaita
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Post: #1209
RE: Civil War in Iraq and as-Sham
(2017 Apr 07 20:07)Temnozor Wrote:  
(2017 Apr 07 19:04)Mustapaita Wrote:  Why would I want to do that? I just don't buy flimsy false flag claims. It's not what I want to believe, belief doesn't really enter into it. It's what I find more likely.

(1) Syria surrendered all of its CMs in 2014. That's not to say that chlorine bombs are hard to make (the reason why terrorists use them), but that the Syrians know full well of the consequences they will face for using CMs. There is no way Assad or any general has authorised this and no way this was a maverick stunt either.

(2) The Americans and the press claim that it was a sarin attack, which is an obvious lie: (a) because of the relatively low death count (if it can be believed), and (b) because of the heaps of photos where we have seen "White Helmets" walking in the affected areas with just flip-flops and rubber gloves for protection. Sarin would have killed them too. There is also a lot of photographic evidence that suggests these whole scenes were staged.

(3) Chemical attacks are inefficient. Militarily speaking, they would be used to disperse entrenched enemy troops, to cause panic and to clear a densely defended area. Nothing of this is applicable to the Hama area where the attack took place.

(4) There was literally nothing to gain by this. The SAA is winning on all fronts and has zero reason to use inefficient weapons that would highly increase the risk of a U.S. – NATO intervention. Especially since the narrativе is that they bombed civilians for no apparent reason.

Like I said, the most recent attack is not something I have a strong opinion either way yet since everything is still up in the air. But one of the things that makes me skeptical about a possible false flag is the fact that the regime immediately claimed they had hit a chemical stockpile instead of just denying the use chem weapons.

Quote:That's because I assume that you are intelligent enough to not fall for obvious manipulations.

That's what I assume as well. As long as they're obvious. Big Grin

Quote:What is your reasoning for this?

Amount of Sarin used, method of delivery, probable area of launch, etc. Talking about Ghouta here.

"Devil, I am devil." ― Pekka Siitoin
2017 Apr 08 09:50
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W. R.
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Post: #1210
RE: Civil War in Iraq and as-Sham
(2017 Apr 07 13:02)Temnozor Wrote:  He has already been corrupted, that was not a 5D chess move.

I think the term ‘corruption’ is not quite right here.

There is this patter of human behaviour: if a person assumes an office, he (or she) changes, his new office and new environment change him. I expected that to happen to Trump, but was pleasantly surprised by the positive steps taken by him immediately during the first months of his presidency.

The recent strikes on Syria don't bother me much: bad Assad (or his guys without him knowing) used chemical weapons, badass Trump tsk-tsked at him by ordering the limited strikes (that actually didn't cause much damage). No big deal.

What bothers me ten times more is the reported news that Bannon's influence in the White House is waning. I believe the pattern of human behaviour I mentioned above was partially blocked in relation to Trump by mere presence of Bannon and other like-minded persons around Trump. If that factor is no longer in play, we may soon watch civic nationalist Trump bit by bit turning into a neocon.

I guess that shamefur dispray will be able to turn me into an anti-Semite. Because fuck (((Kushner))), that's why.

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2017 Apr 08 17:39
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