Migrants from Eastern Ukraine Put Pressure on Belarus
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W. R.
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Migrants from Eastern Ukraine Put Pressure on Belarus
Quote:Migrants from Eastern Ukraine Put Pressure on Belarus

Ryhor Astapenia
03 August 2015


Belarus has never had anything resembling the number of migrants it has recently experienced. Over the past 12 months the Belarusian population, thanks to the 100,000 refugees from the Donbas, has increased by 1%. Indeed, Belarus has more Ukrainian migrants per capita than any other country.

Belarus is not a particularly attractive destination for migrants, since it does not offer much in the way of social benefits or employment opportunities. For a long time Afghans, who came to Belarus in the 1980s and 1990s, accounted for 70% of all the country's refugees.

These days, the picture is rapidly changing. The number of Syrian refugees remains minimal but the sheer volume of people migrating from the Donbas has put serious pressure on Belarus' economy and has even contributed to the growing crime rate.

Belarus Meets the Middle East

Belarus has never been particularly attractive to immigrants for a number of reasons. The public authorities are under no obligation to provide refugees with housing, a means of subsistence, or even language courses. Refugees can apply for additional support (which the state has the right to deny them) like food, clothing, travel and accommodations, but this assistance has a $200 ceiling. Therefore, migrants usually use Belarus as a jumping off point en route to the European Union. <...>

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Quote:‘In June, many media outlets reprinted a statement by a representative of the Belarusian police who made light of the problems Belarus was facing when trying to deal with the “mentality of the refugees”. According to him, the police have to explain to migrants from the Donbas that it is illegal to cross the street when there is a red light or drink beer out in public places’.

Crossing the street when there is a red light? How uncivilized of these Slavs.

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[...] just as it is not left unto us to choose our ancestors, so we may not choose our nation; we can only fulfil, or not fulfil, the obligations that come from being a member of our people’.
© Dr. Jan Stankievič ‘From the History of Belarus’

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2015 Aug 22 18:17
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Temnozor
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RE: Migrants from Eastern Ukraine Put Pressure on Belarus
(2015 Aug 22 18:17)W. R. Wrote:  ‘In June, many media outlets reprinted a statement by a representative of the Belarusian police who made light of the problems Belarus was facing when trying to deal with the “mentality of the refugees”. According to him, the police have to explain to migrants from the Donbas that it is illegal to cross the street when there is a red light or drink beer out in public places’.

B E L A R U S
E
L
A
R
U
S

... is best Rus. Best Slav. Stronghold of Europe. Also stronk. Please annex Russia.

"Whoever says that he "belongs to his time" is only saying that he agrees with the largest number of fools at that moment." - Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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2015 Aug 22 19:22
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Kat
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RE: Migrants from Eastern Ukraine Put Pressure on Belarus
(2015 Aug 22 19:22)Temnozor Wrote:  B E L A R U S
E
L
A
R
U
S

... is best Rus. Best Slav. Stronghold of Europe. Also stronk. Please annex Russia.

W-w-what?

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2015 Aug 23 20:56
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Temnozor
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RE: Migrants from Eastern Ukraine Put Pressure on Belarus
(2015 Aug 23 20:56)Kat Wrote:  W-w-what?

Belarussia is best Russia, no one can objectively dispute that.

- STRONK Soviet industry was never privatised, still functioning
- No Caucasians / Central Asians / other weird immigrants, Belarus is 1488% Slavic
- Public order almost on a par with Japan
- No extreme poverty at all (although there are much fewer "upper middle class" households as well, but who cares)
- Clean streets, nice houses, everything looks neat and orderly

I would pick Lukashenko over Putin at any time.

"Whoever says that he "belongs to his time" is only saying that he agrees with the largest number of fools at that moment." - Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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2015 Aug 23 22:28
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Kat
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RE: Migrants from Eastern Ukraine Put Pressure on Belarus
(2015 Aug 23 22:28)Temnozor Wrote:  - STRONK Soviet industry was never privatised, still functioning

You're a communist. thumbs down

Quote:I would pick Lukashenko over Putin at any time.

Obviously not even the Russians themselves want to be governed by another Russian. Why then force them on others?

And the Putinist Osweo thanked this post. How deceitful isn't the heart of a Stalinist. Eek
2015 Aug 25 21:25
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Osweo
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RE: Migrants from Eastern Ukraine Put Pressure on Belarus
(2015 Aug 25 21:25)Kat Wrote:  
(2015 Aug 23 22:28)Temnozor Wrote:  - STRONK Soviet industry was never privatised, still functioning

You're a communist. thumbs down
Not necessarily. Not necessarily at all. The situation was created by Communists in the 1920s and '30s. Here in the 2010s, we can choose to pragmatically deal with this already existing reality in many ways. In Belarus, it's all still operational. I've seen it, it's remarkable, it really is. And choosing to keep it that way is almost a conservative ideological response!
Quote:
Quote:I would pick Lukashenko over Putin at any time.

Obviously not even the Russians themselves want to be governed by another Russian. Why then force them on others?
Putin inherited a terrible situation from Yeltsin. Luka just didn't bother implementing anything new and strange in the '90s. God knows what Putin would have done in his place. Belarus is a completely different playing field, though. The size and relative security of the place allows for different policies entirely. Given that Luka and Vova are products of much the same system, perhaps they wouldn't act too differently in each other's shoes after all.
Quote: And the Putinist Osweo thanked this post. How deceitful isn't the heart of a Stalinist. Eek
All in the interests of the proletariat, Ma'am! G'day

"And now if a whole nation fell into that? In such a case, I answer, infallibly they will return out of it. For life is no cunningly-devised deception or self deception, it is a great truth that thou art alive, that thou hast desires, necessities: neither can these subsist and satisfy themselves on delusions, but on fact. To fact, depend on it, we shall come back: to such fact, blessed or cursed, as we have wisdom for."
Thomas Carlyle
2015 Aug 25 21:52
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Temnozor
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RE: Migrants from Eastern Ukraine Put Pressure on Belarus
(2015 Aug 25 21:25)Kat Wrote:  You're a communist. thumbs down

How did you conclude that? Thing is, the Soviet Union was one of the most industrialised countries in the world and produced a good lot of things. Can you say that about most post-Soviet countries today, Russia included? Not really, because most of the existing industry that was inherited from the USSR was sold out and consequently ruined in the cause of disastrous privatisation programs which threw us back for whole decades in time. You can read about it here. Belarus skillfully avoided that scenario, which is a major national trauma in the greatest part of the post-Soviet space. What's so communist about the preservation of functioning industries?

(2015 Aug 25 21:25)Kat Wrote:  Obviously not even the Russians themselves want to be governed by another Russian.

I don't get the point of this either. Did I say Putin is bad? He started out from a position that was very different to that of Lukashenko, inheriting the mess Yeltsin has left of Russia. Also, the sheer territorial scale of Russia makes things more difficult in terms of management. But that's just excuses, I only tried to point out that from my personal anecdotal experience, people in Russia and Ukraine usually agree that Belarus is the best place to live in the ex-USSR.

(2015 Aug 25 21:25)Kat Wrote:  Why then force them on others?

W-what? Huh?

"Whoever says that he "belongs to his time" is only saying that he agrees with the largest number of fools at that moment." - Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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2015 Aug 25 22:50
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Kat
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RE: Migrants from Eastern Ukraine Put Pressure on Belarus
I'll answer you two communists-who-are-not-really-communists when I got some more time and a better net connection.
2015 Aug 26 20:42
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Kat
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RE: Migrants from Eastern Ukraine Put Pressure on Belarus
The industry in the Soviet Union didn't do well. It worked because people in the Soviet Republics and also the Eastern European Satellit states were forced to by the uncompetitive products. They yearned for Western products. I remember as a child when people going to Leningrad packed their bags with nylon stockings, sanitary towels, jeans etc. to hand out to people living there. The only thing the Soviets really excelled at were making weapons.

When the computerization arrived the Soviet industry couldn't tag along and this was one of the reasons why the Soviet Union broke down. Belorussia was better off than many of the other Soviet Republics, it already produced about half of all the software and computer products in the Soviet Union.

It’s hilarious that people who complain about oppression of views in the Western countries are so utterly fascinated by countries that really control their citizens.

(2015 Aug 25 21:52)Osweo Wrote:  Putin inherited a terrible situation from Yeltsin.

And Yeltsin inherited a terrible situation from the Soviet Union.

(2015 Aug 25 22:50)Temnozor Wrote:  Did I say Putin is bad?

You said: "I would pick Lukashenko over Putin at any time." If someone would make a comment about me on par with what you made about Putin I'd assume I'm not very popular.

Quote:W-what? Huh?

I spoke on behalf of all its neighbours.
2015 Aug 28 14:42
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Gamera
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RE: Migrants from Eastern Ukraine Put Pressure on Belarus
(2015 Aug 28 14:42)Kat Wrote:  I remember as a child when people going to Leningrad packed their bags with nylon stockings, sanitary towels, jeans etc. to hand out to people living there. The only thing the Soviets really excelled at were making weapons.

That doesn't really prove anything beyond the fact people visiting Leningrad wanted to reinforce their moral excellence through a form of direct "charity", feeling all good inside when going back to their suburbs in Western Europe.

This still takes place in Cuba (the country with a criminal embargo, and at the same time one of the highest HDI scores in whole Latin America), and it is well known by the locals. Tourists, being brainwashed into thinking people there are dying of hunger and craving for all sorts of American merchandise, quite often give out a lot of stuff to people passing by. Cubans take advantage of this, of course, and will never reject anything being handed to them: they're free, exotic products. They don't really need the stuff; they take everything and sell it in the black market, making some cash for themselves.

You may think I'm biased. Well, don't just believe me. Read tourist guides, like this one:

http://www.tripadvisor.ca/Travel-g147270....Gift.html

As you may read there, this neo-liberal common wisdom of the "poor and oppressed Cubans" has gone to unhealthy extremes:

Quote:And then there is the willy-nilly off resort gifting, which is even worse. Tourists invading schools with pencils or throwing candy at children from tour busses. Teaching children at an age where they are learning how the world revolves, that it's way better business to stand by the road waiting for the tourist bus than getting an education. One can only imagine the consequences when these children turn young adults having been raised thinking of all foreigners as a quick way to gifts and money. Those tourists that spend their time in Cuba off resort do not have to imagine, the consequences of two decades of thoughtless gifting is all too real.

There are now schools in Cuba (located near resorts) that have guards posted by the entrance to stop tourists from entering and disturbing the children.

My point being: wouldn't really surprise me if the exact same thing was going on at the old Eastern bloc.

“I'm an economist. I've even got a PhD in Economics. Yet, I'm a good person, I swear!” - Rafael Correa, president of Ecuador
2015 Aug 28 15:50
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