British EU referendum
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Raskolnikov
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Post: #31
RE: British EU referendum
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2016 Apr 23 21:38
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Post: #32
RE: British EU referendum
A critical view of the EU deal, from Germany to Britain

By German professors group

http://capx.co/a-critical-view-of-the-eu...o-britain/

Read the complete text, it openly says no matter what GB does, its flogged into its place forever.

"The secret to happiness is freedom... And the secret to freedom is courage."
Thucydides

“My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.” Carl Schurz

"Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms."
Aristotle

"Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must." Thucydides
2016 Apr 28 12:19
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Post: #33
RE: British EU referendum
Brexit would be a victory for xenophobes

Britain’s EU referendum will be a vote on immigration. The out camp know that voters are aware of the economic and political risks of Brexit, but hope that their resentment of "uncontrolled" immigration from the EU will trump these concerns.

Growing up in a Yorkshire village in the latter half of the '70s and the '80s, the idea of significant numbers of people coming to live in Britain, let alone Yorkshire, was just funny.

The Irish aside, there just weren’t any. And they would not have been received warmly. The bigotry was jarring, the suspicion of foreigners unapologetic. Yorkshire was not exceptional; much of Britain was like this.

Things have changed enormously for the better over the thirty years since. From being home to one of the lowest proportion of people from other EU countries in the EU in the mid-1980s, Britain is now home to a comparable proportion of people from other EU countries as Germany and France.

Over this period, the UK has gone from being one of the more insular EU countries to one of its more open and cosmopolitan ones. Openness to immigration is sign of a flourishing, confident society; hostility to it an indicator of a fearful, resentful one. (...)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/...rn-back-t/

"The secret to happiness is freedom... And the secret to freedom is courage."
Thucydides

“My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.” Carl Schurz

"Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms."
Aristotle

"Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must." Thucydides
2016 Apr 29 14:31
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Osweo
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Post: #34
RE: British EU referendum
(2016 Apr 29 14:31)Aptrgangr Wrote:  Growing up in a Yorkshire village in the latter half of the '70s and the '80s, the idea of significant numbers of people coming to live in Britain, let alone Yorkshire, was just funny.
This is a poor taste joke. Even in 1971, there were over 119,000 Pakistanis in England, mostly in Yorkshire, and 296,000 is the figure Wiki gives for 1981.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Pakistanis
This cunt might well have lived in a village, but he cannot have been unaware of what was happening in the major industrial cities of his own fucking county.

The article's full of the usual crap about how wonderful our lives are thanks to immigration, and yet they risked putting an online poll in the middle of it, asking "Is immigration positive for Britain?" or something like that. I put the obvious "no" answer, and the website tells me:

Quote:Thank you for voting
67% Agree with you


Big Grin

"And now if a whole nation fell into that? In such a case, I answer, infallibly they will return out of it. For life is no cunningly-devised deception or self deception, it is a great truth that thou art alive, that thou hast desires, necessities: neither can these subsist and satisfy themselves on delusions, but on fact. To fact, depend on it, we shall come back: to such fact, blessed or cursed, as we have wisdom for."
Thomas Carlyle
2016 Apr 29 19:14
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Post: #35
RE: British EU referendum
^ One of the best things about voting Leave on June 23 will be voting against people like that - as a rule, liberal-left, pro-immigration, unpatriotic Labour-to-Green voters, who look down on the pro-Brexit working class.

For most leftists, being pro-EU is a reflexive matter of identity. Those xenophobic Kippers and free-market Tories support leaving the EU - so, as "progressives", they must support the "internationalist" EU.

Whether Leave wins or not, this referendum has accentuated an uncomfortable truth: Millions of our own citizens have no confidence in our nation. Far too many have been won over by scare storied that we will be too small and insignificant outside the EU - that we'll be somehow "isolated", that we wont be able to negotiate our own trade agreements.

Another particularly bad aspect of this is a lack of faith in our own law making abilities. Like just today, I read that Brexit would be bad for farm animals. Apparently we are incapable of looking after animal rights without Brussels.

For many middle to upper class people, especially in London and the SE, class and status is more important than nation. These kind of middle class people may not especially love the EU, but they will vote for their own perceived financial interest above the national interest. That is why "Stronger In" has talked about alleged economic risks of Brexit far more than anything else.

I think the biggest mistake Leave has made is not recognising that - you can talk all you want about immigration and sovereignty, but you cant seal the deal without reassuring people their standard of living will be OK. Polls are pretty close right now, but we'd probably be winning outright if we'd endorsed the so-called Norway option. Articles like this make a good point: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/new...ve-EU.html
2016 Apr 30 11:02
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Raskolnikov
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Post: #36
RE: British EU referendum
The European Union always was a CIA project, as Brexiteers discover
  • AMBROSE EVANS-PRITCHARD[Image: Ambrose_Evans-Pritchard1-small.png]
    • 27 APRIL 2016 • 8:18PM
      [Image: monnet-large_trans++rAjLUMxWirEqyV9fzbDs...gh5S​jo.PNG]
      EU creator Jean Monnet was Roosevelt's eyes and ears in Europe. Some called him a US agent
      Brexiteers should have been prepared for the shattering intervention of the US. The European Union always was an American project.

      It was Washington that drove European integration in the late 1940s, and funded it covertly under the Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon administrations.

      [Image: Barack-Obama-Democ_3469593b-large_trans+..._RXJU8.jpg]
      US President Barack Obama warned Britain to stay in the EU CREDIT: AFP/GETTY
      While irritated at times, the US has relied on the EU ever since as the anchor to American regional interests alongside NATO.

      There has never been a divide-and-rule strategy.

      The eurosceptic camp has been strangely blind to this, somehow supposing that powerful forces across the Atlantic are egging on British secession, and will hail them as liberators. [Some do.]

      The anti-Brussels movement in France - and to a lesser extent in Italy and Germany, and among the Nordic Left - works from the opposite premise, that the EU is essentially an instrument of Anglo-Saxon power and 'capitalisme sauvage'.

      France's Marine Le Pen is trenchantly anti-American. She rails against dollar supremacy. Her Front National relies on funding from Russian banks linked to Vladimir Putin.

      Like it or not, this is at least is strategically coherent.

      The Schuman Declaration that set the tone of Franco-German reconciliation - and would lead by stages to the European Community - was cooked up by the US Secretary of State Dean Acheson at a meeting in Foggy Bottom. "It all began in Washington," said Robert Schuman's chief of staff.

      It was the Truman administration that browbeat the French to reach a modus vivendi with Germany in the early post-War years, even threatening to cut off US Marshall aid at a furious meeting with recalcitrant French leaders they resisted in September 1950.

      [Image: Czechoslovakia-1968-large_trans++CmFrNYb...raWsrI.jpg]
      Soviet tanks rumble into Prague
      Truman's motive was obvious. The Yalta settlement with the Soviet Union was breaking down. He wanted a united front to deter the Kremlin from further aggrandizement after Stalin gobbled up Czechoslovakia, doubly so after Communist North Korea crossed the 38th Parallel and invaded the South.

      For British eurosceptics, Jean Monnet looms large in the federalist pantheon, the emminence grise of supranational villainy. Few are aware that he spent much of his life in America, and served as war-time eyes and ears of Franklin Roosevelt.

      General Charles de Gaulle thought him an American agent, as indeed he was in a loose sense. Eric Roussel's biography of Monnet reveals how he worked hand in glove with successive administrations.

      [Image: general-charles-de-gaulle-at-the-arc-de-...bdro6g.jpg]
      General Charles de Gaulle was always deeply suspicious of American motives CREDIT:ALAMY
      It is odd that this magisterial 1000-page study has never been translated into English since it is the best work ever written about the origins of the EU.

      Nor are many aware of declassified documents from the State Department archives showing that US intelligence funded the European movement secretly for decades, and worked aggressively behind the scenes to push Britain into the project.

      As this newspaper first reported when the treasure became available, one memorandum dated July 26, 1950, reveals a campaign to promote a full-fledged European parliament. It is signed by Gen William J Donovan, head of the American wartime Office of Strategic Services, precursor of the Central Inteligence Agency.

      The key CIA front was the American Committee for a United Europe (ACUE), chaired by Donovan. Another document shows that it provided 53.5 per cent of the European movement's funds in 1958. The board included Walter Bedell Smith and Allen Dulles, CIA directors in the Fifties, and a caste of ex-OSS officials who moved in and out of the CIA.

      [Image: dono-large_trans++1TYULLf6uJ0HC15x5gRMXM...Yz​yvW0.PNG]
      Bill Donovan, legendary head of the war-time OSS, was later in charge of orchestrating the EU project


      Papers show that it treated some of the EU's 'founding fathers' as hired hands, and actively prevented them finding alternative funding that would have broken reliance on Washington.

      There is nothing particularly wicked about this. The US acted astutely in the context of the Cold War. The political reconstruction of Europe was a roaring success.

      There were horrible misjudgments along the way, of course. A memo dated June 11, 1965, instructs the vice-president of the European Community to pursue monetary union by stealth, suppressing debate until the "adoption of such proposals would become virtually inescapable". This was too clever by half, as we can see today from debt-deflation traps and mass unemployment across southern Europe.

      In a sense these papers are ancient history. What they show is that the American 'deep state' was in up to its neck. We can argue over whether Boris Johnson crossed a line last week by dredging up President Barack Obama's "part-Kenyan ancestry", but the cardinal error was to suppose that Mr Obama's trade threat had anything to do with the ordeals of his grandfather in a Mau Mau prison camp. It was American foreign policy boilerplate.

      As it happens, Mr Obama might understandably feel rancour after the abuses that have come to light lately from the Mau Mau repression. It was a shameful breakdown of colonial police discipline, to the disgust of veteran officials who served in other parts of Africa. But the message from his extraordinary book - 'Dreams From My Father' - is that he strives to rise above historic grudges.

      Brexiteers take comfort that Republican hopeful Ted Cruz wants a post-Brexit Britain to jump to the "front of the line for a free trade deal”, but he is merely making campaign hay. Mr Cruz will conform to Washington's Palmerstonian imperatives - whatever they may be at that moment - if he ever enters the White House.

      [Image: mau_mau-large_trans++xE6WYbzRGIq7DYNoS4-...9x9-2I.PNG]
      President Obama's grandfather was a prisoner during the suppression of Kenya's Mau Mau revolt, a shameful episode of British colonial history


      It is true that America had second thoughts about the EU once the ideological fanatics gained ascendancy in the late 1980s, recasting the union as a rival superpower with ambitions to challenge and surpass the US.

      John Kornblum, the State Department's chief of European affairs in the 1990s, says it was a nightmare trying deal with Brussels. "I ended up totally frustrated. In the areas of military, security and defence, it is totally dysfunctional."

      Mr Kornblum argues that the EU "left NATO psychologically" when it tried to set up its own military command structure, and did so with its usual posturing and incompetence. "Both Britain and the West would be in much better shape if Britain was not in the EU," he said.

      This is interesting but it is a minority view in US policy circles. The frustration passed when Poland and the first wave of East European states joined the EU in 2004, bringing in a troupe of Atlanticist governments.

      We know it is hardly a love-affair. A top US official was caught two years ago on a telephone intercept dismissing Brussels during the Ukraine crisis with the lapidary words, "fuck the EU".

      Yet the all-pervading view is that the Western liberal order is under triple assault, and the EU must be propped, much as Britain and France propped up the tottering Ottoman Empire in the 19th - and wisely so given that its slow collapse led directly to the First World War.

      Today's combined threats comes from Jihadi terror and a string of failed states across the Maghreb and the Levant; from a highly-militarized pariah regime in Moscow that will soon run out of money but has a window of opportunity before Europe rearms; and from an extremely dangerous crisis in the South China Sea that is escalating by the day as Beijing tests the US alliance structure.

      The dangers from Russia and China are of course interlinked. It is likely - pessimists say certain - that Vladimir Putin would seize on a serious blow-up on Pacific rim to try his luck in Europe. In the eyes of Washington, Ottawa, Canberra, and those capitals around the world that broadly view Pax Americana as a plus, this is not the time for Britain to lob a stick of dynamite into Europe's rickety edifice.

      The awful truth for the Leave campaign is that the governing establishment of the entire Western world views Brexit as strategic vandalism. Whether fair or not, Brexiteers must answer this reproach. A few such as Lord Owen grasp the scale of the problem. Most seemed blithely unaware until Mr Obama blew into town last week.

      In my view, the Brexit camp should be laying out plans to increase UK defence spending by half to 3pc of GDP, pledging to propel Britain into the lead as the undisputed military power of Europe. They should aim to bind this country closer to France in an even more intimate security alliance. These sorts of moves would at least spike one of Project Fear's biggest guns.

      The Brexiteers should squelch any suggestion that EU withdrawal means resiling from global responsibility, or tearing up theEuropean Convention (that British-drafted, non-EU, Magna Carta of freedom), or turning our backs on the COP21 climate accords, or any other of the febrile flirtations of the movement.

      It is perhaps too much to expect a coherent plan from a disparate group, thrown together artificially by events. Yet many of us who are sympathetic to the Brexit camp, who also want to take back our sovereign self-government and escape the bogus and usurped supremacy of the European Court of Justice, have yet to hear how Brexiteers think this extraction can occur without colossal collateral damage and in a manner consistent with the honour of this country.

      You can quarrel with Europe, or you can quarrel with the US, but it is courting fate to quarrel with the whole democratic world at the same time.

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2016 May 01 06:34
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Post: #37
RE: British EU referendum
Cox: Why Brexit would be a boon for Donald Trump

By Rob Cox May 10, 2016

The author is a Reuters Breakingviews columnist. The opinions expressed are his own.

It is June 24 and a majority of Britons have voted to leave the European Union. U.S. Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump says he’s inspired by their victory and calls for a similar referendum on the North American Free Trade Agreement and Trans-Pacific Partnership in the United States. Breakingviews obtained an early copy of Trump’s speech (three-quarters of which is composed verbatim of Trump’s previous comments on the topic).

I just got off the phone with my English politician friend Boris Johnson. I congratulated him on his huge victory in convincing the people of Britain to do what we should be doing here.

Yesterday, the British held a referendum and decided they’ve had enough. No more sending good manufacturing jobs overseas. No more letting bureaucrats in Brussels decide the shape of their bananas or whatever. Seriously, it’s crazy.

No more giving Romanian plumbers jobs that belong to English workers. And no more allowing freeloading migrants to cross the English Channel. Migration has been a horrible thing for Europe.

We might have fought with the Brits over the years. They even tried to keep me out of the country. I know Great Britain very well. I know the country very well. I have a lot of investments there. The Brits are sending a message as clear as day across the pond: We will no longer surrender this country, or its people, to the false song of globalism.

America First will be the major and overriding theme of my administration. (...)

http://blogs.reuters.com/breakingviews/2...ald-trump/

"The secret to happiness is freedom... And the secret to freedom is courage."
Thucydides

“My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.” Carl Schurz

"Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms."
Aristotle

"Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must." Thucydides
2016 May 11 22:00
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Godyfa
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Post: #38
RE: British EU referendum
WATCH: Brexit the movie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltAtUTlm...amCgM_aOvL
2016 May 12 18:44
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Post: #39
RE: British EU referendum
LAGARDE: Brexit would be 'pretty bad to very, very bad'

The International Monetary Fund (IMF) issued its starkest warning yet on Friday that the UK leaving the EU — known as Brexit — would have severe implications for its economy.

House prices in the UK would drop, while London could lose its place as the centre of the financial world, IMF boss Christine Lagarde said. She added that the Bank of England would have to lower interest rates to protect the economy.

An IMF report added that Brexit would hit home-owners and developers particularly hard.

It predicted “sharp drops in equity and house prices, increased borrowing costs for households and businesses, and even a sudden stop of investment inflows into key sectors such as commercial real estate and finance.”

In a press conference, Lagarde reasserted that the IMF’s views on Brexit were completely independent, saying “We are not into politics. It is out duty to lay out the fact.”

Although Lagarde admitted that “we have on occasions been wrong,” she said the IMF saw “no positives” for a Brexit and that the consequences could be “pretty bad to very, very bad.” (...)

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/imf-re...ion-2016-5

"The secret to happiness is freedom... And the secret to freedom is courage."
Thucydides

“My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.” Carl Schurz

"Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms."
Aristotle

"Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must." Thucydides
2016 May 13 14:48
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Flavius
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Post: #40
RE: British EU referendum
Personally, Britain leaving would be good riddance. The European Union, if Le Pen wins in France and AfD leads in a big way in Germany, would become far more Eurocentrist. It would set itself free from the shackles of the U.S. and Britain, and would be able to protect itself from Russian intrigues in Eastern Europe.
2016 May 14 22:23
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