Russia’s top enemies (according to Russians): US, Ukraine, Turkey and Poland
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Temnozor
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Post: #21
RE: Russia’s top enemies (according to Russians): US, Ukraine, Turkey and Poland
(2016 Jun 02 22:38)Flavius Wrote:  It is funny, talking about how large Russia is and how you can obliterate the planet with nukes yet still feel threatened by Ukraine choosing to go West! Ukrainians must be really scary to you guys. ;)

Ukraine is not a threat, same as Estonia. NATO is a threat, first and foremost the US. If NATO uses our bordering countries for bases and other military installations, it is a threat. Or if it simply tries to limit Russia's manoeuvrability, it is a threat. NATO is trying to eliminate all the buffer states between us and them, ergo NATO is the aggressor. It's stupid that I even need to explain this, because you, of all people, with your "lol Russia so weak" shitposting should understand best that Russia doesn't have the resouces to involve itself into foreign matters too much, unless forced to.

"Whoever says that he "belongs to his time" is only saying that he agrees with the largest number of fools at that moment." - Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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2016 Jun 02 22:57
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Post: #22
RE: Russia’s top enemies (according to Russians): US, Ukraine, Turkey and Poland
(2016 Jun 02 22:57)Temnozor Wrote:  
(2016 Jun 02 22:38)Flavius Wrote:  It is funny, talking about how large Russia is and how you can obliterate the planet with nukes yet still feel threatened by Ukraine choosing to go West! Ukrainians must be really scary to you guys. ;)

Ukraine is not a threat, same as Estonia. NATO is a threat, first and foremost the US. If NATO uses our bordering countries for bases and other military installations, it is a threat. Or if it simply tries to limit Russia's manoeuvrability, it is a threat. NATO is trying to eliminate all the buffer states between us and them, ergo NATO is the aggressor. It's stupid that I even need to explain this, because you, of all people, with your "lol Russia so weak" shitposting should understand best that Russia doesn't have the resouces to involve itself into foreign matters too much, unless forced to.

You border the Baltic States, and they're NATO members. Nothing apocalyptic has happened. This NATO is a threat, is nothing but a demagogic propaganda to captivate the masses while Putin continues to enrich himself and his friends.
2016 Jun 02 23:37
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Post: #23
RE: Russia’s top enemies (according to Russians): US, Ukraine, Turkey and Poland
(2016 Jun 02 22:55)Osweo Wrote:  
(2016 Jun 02 22:22)Flavius Wrote:  Tell me, which is more threatening? Actual nuclear-tipped missiles or the anti-missile defense system?
Think about what arms "proliferation" means, and then think about the respective dates for the two things you mention. One is an inheritance from the past, to be dealt with as sensibly as possible in new circumstances. The other is an innovation, that MAKES new circumstances.

The biggest mistake Ukraine made was trusting Russia to respect her sovereignty. Allowing Russia to take her stockpile made possible the invasions of Crimea and Donbass. Had Ukraine maintained her stockpile then Ukraine's territorial integrity indeed would be preserved and Putin's bear toothless. This is why we need the missile defense, to stop Putin's threats.
2016 Jun 02 23:43
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Post: #24
RE: Russia’s top enemies (according to Russians): US, Ukraine, Turkey and Poland
(2016 Jun 02 23:37)Flavius Wrote:  You border the Baltic States, and they're NATO members. Nothing apocalyptic has happened. This NATO is a threat, is nothing but a demagogic propaganda to captivate the masses while Putin continues to enrich himself and his friends.

Are you sure about that? The fact alone that our former provinces are now part of an enemy alliance is reason enough to worry. Imagine the Cold War would have ended the other way around and the US would have fallen apart at the end of it. Now, the Warsaw Pact would use this opportunity to invite Alaska and the whole American Westcoast into it, have drills and station advanced military hardware there. That would be totally fine with you?

And anyway, the argument is of course retarded, because Russia hasn't done anything terrible to NATO either and you are still throwing a tantrum because you feel "threatened" by a country that's clearly in retreat.

"Whoever says that he "belongs to his time" is only saying that he agrees with the largest number of fools at that moment." - Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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2016 Jun 02 23:46
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Post: #25
RE: Russia’s top enemies (according to Russians): US, Ukraine, Turkey and Poland
(2016 Jun 02 23:46)Temnozor Wrote:  
(2016 Jun 02 23:37)Flavius Wrote:  You border the Baltic States, and they're NATO members. Nothing apocalyptic has happened. This NATO is a threat, is nothing but a demagogic propaganda to captivate the masses while Putin continues to enrich himself and his friends.

Are you sure about that? The fact alone that our former provinces are now part of an enemy alliance is reason enough to worry. Imagine the Cold War would have ended the other way around and the US would have fallen apart at the end of it. Now, the Warsaw Pact would use this opportunity to invite Alaska and the whole American Westcoast into it, have drills and station advanced military hardware there. That would be totally fine with you?

And anyway, the argument is of course retarded, because Russia hasn't done anything terrible to NATO either and you are still throwing a tantrum because you feel "threatened" by a country that's clearly in retreat.

The difference between NATO and the Warsaw Pact lies in the fact NATO membership is and always will be voluntary while the Pact was NOT. The Baltic States are not your provinces, they are independent nations that voluntarily joined NATO. They were not coerced into joining NATO. The only time people ever align with Russia is when they are invaded and forced into your servitude, like um, you know what the USSR did! Your comparison is totally useless, comparing the free West and prison USSR where people had 0 rights, just lol.
2016 Jun 02 23:51
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Post: #26
RE: Russia’s top enemies (according to Russians): US, Ukraine, Turkey and Poland
(2016 Jun 02 23:51)Flavius Wrote:  The difference between NATO and the Warsaw Pact lies in the fact NATO membership is and always will be voluntary while the Pact was NOT.

I suggested a thought experiment to you, we are talking about simple geopolitics here. Besides, looking at Montenegro, I doubt your statement.

(2016 Jun 02 23:51)Flavius Wrote:  The Baltic States are not your provinces

That's why I've written former provinces, learn to read.

(2016 Jun 02 23:51)Flavius Wrote:  Your comparison is totally useless, comparing the free West and prison USSR where people had 0 rights, just lol.

Grow up.

"Whoever says that he "belongs to his time" is only saying that he agrees with the largest number of fools at that moment." - Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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2016 Jun 03 00:16
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Post: #27
RE: Russia’s top enemies (according to Russians): US, Ukraine, Turkey and Poland
(2016 Jun 02 13:09)Temnozor Wrote:  I also wonder how the hell Poland made it into the list.

I guess because was first to react on pro-Russian separatists movements in Ukraine and has a firm stance on it.
2016 Jun 03 00:19
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Post: #28
RE: Russia’s top enemies (according to Russians): US, Ukraine, Turkey and Poland
(2016 Jun 03 00:19)Hrabia Wrote:  I guess because was first to react on pro-Russian separatists movements in Ukraine and has a firm stance on it.

Yeah, I know, but Poland is not a real threat and you rarely hear about it. Wouldn't have guessed that Russians have strong opinions about it.

"Whoever says that he "belongs to his time" is only saying that he agrees with the largest number of fools at that moment." - Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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2016 Jun 03 00:24
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Post: #29
RE: Russia’s top enemies (according to Russians): US, Ukraine, Turkey and Poland
(2016 Jun 03 00:24)Temnozor Wrote:  Yeah, I know, but Poland is not a real threat and you rarely hear about it. Wouldn't have guessed that Russians have strong opinions about it.

Perceiving someone as an enemy does not necessarily mean that someone is a threat.
2016 Jun 03 00:40
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Post: #30
RE: Russia’s top enemies (according to Russians): US, Ukraine, Turkey and Poland
(2016 Jun 02 15:53)Temnozor Wrote:  
(2016 Jun 02 15:03)Mustapaita Wrote:  Name another country that has constantly accused Estonia of fascism, apartheid, nazism, racism, human rights violations, discrimination, etc...

Yeah, so what? Still nobody cares about a country with like ... 2 tanks and a motorboat?

In that case they put up with a lot of bullshit from someone who "doesn't care".

Quote:I didn't say we were on friendly terms with them, but an "enemy" you'd give a fuck about is someome who can threaten you. Estonia does so only by playing host to NATO troops from time to time, otherwise the butthurt is unidirectional and it goes Estonia ---> Russia.

NATO troops in Estonia have never been a threat, their numbers are small and the weapons are conventional. They are a deterrent.

As for the butthurt, I guess there would be a difference between not being happy about being nearly genocided in the past and being mad with a tiny former province that today beats you in basically every imaginable human development index while you, the former superpower, place somewhere among the black African countries.

Quote:Russians really only care about America, China and India on the world stage, everyone else is just a minusculus on the map.

Russians are desperate for someone that still cares about them.

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2016 Jun 03 05:23
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