Russia cleared of a ‘war’ on Norway
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Temnozor
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Post: #11
RE: Russia cleared of a ‘war’ on Norway
(2016 Sep 09 20:30)Mustapaita Wrote:  They are making many parts of Syria unlivable by bombing hospitals for example. It's clear that since the bombing is focused on Aleppo, Idlib and Hama that alot of people are going to head to Turkey from there.

Are you implying they hit hospitals and bakeries on a regular basis? I can't imagine that thousands of people who live in terrorist controlled war zones would suddenly decide to leave their place only because one more country is dropping bombs there from time to time.

(2016 Sep 09 20:30)Mustapaita Wrote:  Which areas? Government progress has been more about shoring up its defensive lines rather than taking large swathes of land. And in the process, even those small bits have been more or less demolished. Russia's role has been in ensuring that the state apparatus of government-held "useful Syria" hasn't collapsed and thus preventing a bigger tidal wave of refugees. But government advances have been small despite the Russian intevention and they've been achieved at great cost. I can't really think of any liberated areas where civilians would have flocked back in significant numbers. Palmyra, may be. But it's still very much a frontline city and I wonder if more people lived there under ISIS than now.

Latakia has almost been reconquered, Hama has been freed of terrorist pockets, Damascus is much safer now, and yes, Palmyra. I saw quite a few reports of civilians returning to these places, though most of them were from RT and that's probably not the best source in this case. I still don't think that the Russian intervention has increased the migration from Syria by a lot.

"Whoever says that he "belongs to his time" is only saying that he agrees with the largest number of fools at that moment." - Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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2016 Sep 10 16:02
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Post: #12
RE: Russia cleared of a ‘war’ on Norway
(2016 Sep 10 16:02)Temnozor Wrote:  Are you implying they hit hospitals and bakeries on a regular basis? I can't imagine that thousands of people who live in terrorist controlled war zones would suddenly decide to leave their place only because one more country is dropping bombs there from time to time.

Yes. Becaue they do, almost every week. Of course, it might be that sometimes bombs dropped by Syrian planes are blamed on Russia. And I can't think of any other reason to do this except to make these places uninhabitable.

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/four-h...s148745952

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/russ...77046.html

http://uawire.org/news/media-russian-fig...-in-aleppo

http://syria.liveuamap.com/en/2016/15-ju...h/comments

http://syria.liveuamap.com/en/2016/15-fe...t/comments

Quote: Latakia has almost been reconquered

We're talking about a few mountain tops and hillsides basically. The jihadis never managed to push very far into Latakia.

Quote:Hama has been freed of terrorist pockets

Pockets? The front has been pretty stale there, now the jihadis have managed to advance lately though.

Quote:Damascus is much safer now

Yes but this is because the rebel pockets have basically been starved into submission and evacuated of fighters and in many cases remaining civilians too. They've gone north.

Quote:I still don't think that the Russian intervention has increased the migration from Syria by a lot.

It's hard to say.

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2016 Sep 11 11:38
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Post: #13
RE: Russia cleared of a ‘war’ on Norway
(2016 Sep 11 11:38)Mustapaita Wrote:  Yes. Becaue they do, almost every week. Of course, it might be that sometimes bombs dropped by Syrian planes are blamed on Russia. And I can't think of any other reason to do this except to make these places uninhabitable.

Ukrainian sources and an article that says "they are TARGETING civilians and killing children ON PURPOSE, probably because they are EVIL". Sorry, but opinion discarded. That's barrel bomb tier.

(2016 Sep 11 11:38)Mustapaita Wrote:  Pockets? The front has been pretty stale there, now the jihadis have managed to advance lately though.

Some districts of Hama City used to be occupied, the government made the terrorists surrender and evacuate at some point if I remember it correctly.

"Whoever says that he "belongs to his time" is only saying that he agrees with the largest number of fools at that moment." - Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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2016 Sep 11 14:29
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RE: Russia cleared of a ‘war’ on Norway
Quote: Some districts of Hama City used to be occupied, the government made the terrorists surrender and evacuate at some point if I remember it correctly.

I think you are thinking of Homs and al-Waer district? They've been negotiating for ages and I think an evacuation is imminent. The Rastan pocket in Homs/Hama is still very much intact. The frontline in northern Hama has been more or less static for a couple of years. The government has made some advances only to lose the regained territories, back and forth.

Quote:Ukrainian sources and an article that says "they are TARGETING civilians and killing children ON PURPOSE, probably because they are EVIL"

Sure but I just did a quick google. There are pretty much weekly reports of hospital bombings coming out of Aleppo and Idlib and many are at least attributed to Russia and as far as I know Russia rarely bothers to deny these claims.

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2016 Sep 11 15:28
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Post: #15
RE: Russia cleared of a ‘war’ on Norway
(2016 Sep 11 15:28)Mustapaita Wrote:  I think you are thinking of Homs and al-Waer district? They've been negotiating for ages and I think an evacuation is imminent. The Rastan pocket in Homs/Hama is still very much intact. The frontline in northern Hama has been more or less static for a couple of years. The government has made some advances only to lose the regained territories, back and forth.

I'd like to look at some old maps, but I'm pretty sure that Homs had some rebell controlled districts for years. It was big news when the government took controll of the whole city. I am not referring to the recent fights North of the city.

Quote:Sure but I just did a quick google. There are pretty much weekly reports of hospital bombings coming out of Aleppo and Idlib and many are at least attributed to Russia and as far as I know Russia rarely bothers to deny these claims.

I only knew about one that came out the same week the Americans bombed a hospital in Afghanistan. Merely a (((coincidence))), of course. You can't believe every report or Twitter post coming out of Syria, the jihadis hate Russia so much that they are fabricating civilian casualties in the tens of thousands.

I'm not saying Russia didn't hit civilians or maybe a hospital, but neither is Russia's air campaign so bad that it would hit hospitals on a regular basis nor are Russia or Assad targeting civilians on purpose.

"Whoever says that he "belongs to his time" is only saying that he agrees with the largest number of fools at that moment." - Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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2016 Sep 11 18:14
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Post: #16
RE: Russia cleared of a ‘war’ on Norway
Quote: I'd like to look at some old maps, but I'm pretty sure that Homs had some rebell controlled districts for years. It was big news when the government took controll of the whole city. I am not referring to the recent fights North of the city.

Yes but Homs was taken long before the Russian military intervention.

Quote:I'm not saying Russia didn't hit civilians or maybe a hospital, but neither is Russia's air campaign so bad that it would hit hospitals on a regular basis nor are Russia or Assad targeting civilians on purpose.

I'm not convinced. I happens far too regular to be accidental. But if you can somehow show me that any these are hoaxes, go ahead, I'd be genuinely interested in seeing that.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/...62506.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/m...ens-killed

http://www.dw.com/en/observers-accuse-ru...a-19049898

http://www.timesofisrael.com/russia-syri...s-amnesty/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew...untry.html

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2016 Sep 11 19:18
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Post: #17
RE: Russia cleared of a ‘war’ on Norway
(2016 Sep 11 19:18)Mustapaita Wrote:  I'm not convinced. I happens far too regular to be accidental. But if you can somehow show me that any these are hoaxes, go ahead, I'd be genuinely interested in seeing that.

I can not, I can only say that I distrust them for a very simple reason: Cui bono? What good would it do for Russia or the Syrian government to attack civilian infrastructure? Notice how most of your links speak of a "deliberate campaign" but fail to provide any reasoning behind it. Maybe some of them are hoaxes, maybe these buildings were hit because terrorists used them as firing positions or hiding places, I don't know, but I will not believe in an "air campaign against hospitals". They could just as well write about Putin and Assad personally kicking kittens, makes no sense other than in the context of ridiculous propaganda.

"Whoever says that he "belongs to his time" is only saying that he agrees with the largest number of fools at that moment." - Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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2016 Sep 11 19:40
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Post: #18
RE: Russia cleared of a ‘war’ on Norway
It seems pretty deliberate since it occurs so often. I just don't see how the rebels could pull off hoax after hoax without being called out.

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2016 Sep 11 20:12
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Post: #19
RE: Russia cleared of a ‘war’ on Norway
The hospital in my small town is the biggest building, apart from the sports centre. Probably a good place for military purposes, with better facilities to look after large numbers of personnel than the sports centre. Water, medical supplies, a big kitchen, lots of beds and blankets. And tall too, with a good commanding view of the area. Could be this sort of set of factors at play, as well as the meme.

"And now if a whole nation fell into that? In such a case, I answer, infallibly they will return out of it. For life is no cunningly-devised deception or self deception, it is a great truth that thou art alive, that thou hast desires, necessities: neither can these subsist and satisfy themselves on delusions, but on fact. To fact, depend on it, we shall come back: to such fact, blessed or cursed, as we have wisdom for."
Thomas Carlyle
2016 Sep 12 14:19
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Post: #20
RE: Russia cleared of a ‘war’ on Norway
I'll believe it when I see it.

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2016 Sep 12 18:41
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