91% of Estonians support idea of ethnostate
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Mustapaita
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91% of Estonians support idea of ethnostate
According to recent survey 90% of Estonians see the state as means to preserve Estonian ethnicity and culture, 91% support the idea of nation state.

Uueduudised.ee seems to be a pretty popular "alternative" news site and it has nearly 10 000 likes on FB which is very impressive for an Estonian news site, alternative or mainstream.

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2017 Jan 09 15:08
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Temnozor
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RE: 91% of Estonians support idea of ethnostate
The other 9% are worrying. I know Tallinn has a leftish hipster scene. Besides, they all too willingly submit to the EU prison of nations. Not putting their money where their mouth is.

"Whoever says that he "belongs to his time" is only saying that he agrees with the largest number of fools at that moment." - Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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2017 Jan 09 15:17
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RE: 91% of Estonians support idea of ethnostate
Quote:I know Tallinn has a leftish hipster scene.
Name a capital that doesn't? I bet even Pyongyang has a hipster scene Big Grin
Quote:Besides, they all too willingly submit to the EU prison of nations. Not putting their money where their mouth is.
This might be difficult to comprehend but most people probably don't see (or didn't see before) the two as mutually exclusive. Westward integration was supposed to strengthen Estonia's claim to nationhood and discourage tibla shenanigans. Estonia cannot realistically hope to be free of the great powers and will have to pick a side in any case. And they're not going to pick the ex-USSR.

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2017 Jan 09 15:20
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RE: 91% of Estonians support idea of ethnostate
(2017 Jan 09 15:20)Mustapaita Wrote:  Name a capital that doesn't? I bet even Pyongyang has a hipster scene Big Grin

Riyadh. Based Wahhabis. Seriously, though: the Baltics are turning into a little magnet for Western hipsters and lefties, those might be a bigger problem than locals. Haven't been in Tallinn yet, but German youths are pretty omnipresent in Riga and they bring all their cancerous attitudes with them.

(2017 Jan 09 15:20)Mustapaita Wrote:  This might be difficult to comprehend but most people probably don't see (or didn't see before) the two as mutually exclusive. Westward integration was supposed to strengthen Estonia's claim to nationhood and discourage tibla shenanigans. Estonia cannot realistically hope to be free of the great powers and will have to pick a side in any case. And they're not going to pick the ex-USSR.

Yes, it was foolish. I see where the initial desire was coming from, but they should have reconsidered by now. At least to the same degree Hungary and Poland do. I'm talking of the people, not the elected government, by the way.

"Whoever says that he "belongs to his time" is only saying that he agrees with the largest number of fools at that moment." - Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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2017 Jan 09 15:31
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RE: 91% of Estonians support idea of ethnostate
(2017 Jan 09 15:31)Temnozor Wrote:  Yes, it was foolish. I see where the initial desire was coming from, but they should have reconsidered by now. At least to the same degree Hungary and Poland do. I'm talking of the people, not the elected government, by the way.

There isn't really any alternative. Both Poland and Hungary are of a different magnitude. All the Baltic countries combined have slightly over half the population of Hungary and Poland is 4x bigger than Hungary. And they don't share a border with Russia.

Estonians as in common Estonians however do share typical east bloc sentiments towards immigration, islam, multikulti, etc.

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2017 Jan 09 15:47
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RE: 91% of Estonians support idea of ethnostate
(2017 Jan 09 15:47)Mustapaita Wrote:  There isn't really any alternative. Both Poland and Hungary are of a different magnitude. All the Baltic countries combined have slightly half the population of Hungary and Poland is 4x bigger than Hungary. And they don't share a border with Russia.

Still doesn't make sense to join USSR 2.0 and to literally be ruled by comissars in order to keep Russia at bay. The Baltics need to update their geopolitics. If the V4 countries became independent nations, they could establish a regional alliance the Baltics could join. Even Finland, actually. Would be a good buffer solution for everyone, including Russia. Would get NATO off our heels.

(2017 Jan 09 15:47)Mustapaita Wrote:  Estonians as in common Estonians however do share typical east bloc sentiments towards immigration, islam, multikulti, etc.

Yeah, as I said, not putting their money where their mouth is. A superstate is the antithesis of an ethnostate or even a nationstate.

"Whoever says that he "belongs to his time" is only saying that he agrees with the largest number of fools at that moment." - Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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2017 Jan 09 15:58
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RE: 91% of Estonians support idea of ethnostate
(2017 Jan 09 15:58)Temnozor Wrote:  Still doesn't make sense to join USSR 2.0 and to literally be ruled by comissars in order to keep Russia at bay.

It does. There is no better alternative.

Quote:The Baltics need to update their geopolitics. If the V4 countries became independent nations, they could establish a regional alliance the Baltics could join. Even Finland, actually. Would be a good buffer solution for everyone, including Russia. Would get NATO off our heels.

IF. That line of thought exists in Estonia but it is purely theoretical at this point.

Quote: Yeah, as I said, not putting their money where their mouth is. A superstate is the antithesis of an ethnostate or even a nationstate.

So far Estonia has become more Estonian ethnically during EU times. But sure they're not happy with the direction the EU is going, they just don't see an alternative. Who/what else is going to give them security guarantees? And a federation need not be the antithesis of an ethnostate. Theoretically it is entirely possible for Estonia to remain (and become even more) Estonian as a member state in the EU.

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2017 Jan 09 18:23
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RE: 91% of Estonians support idea of ethnostate
(2017 Jan 09 18:23)Mustapaita Wrote:  It does. There is no better alternative.

Neutrality. Unless you believe Russia would invade Estonia for some reason, but I do not take this seriously. The risk would only decrease if Estonia was neutral, since the only reason for Russia to point guns at it is NATO. We never invaded Mongolia in all these years and it's geopolitically even more 'vulnerable'. I do not see how the EU protects them from our psyops or 'soft power' influence either.

(2017 Jan 09 18:23)Mustapaita Wrote:  IF. That line of thought exists in Estonia but it is purely theoretical at this point.

Sure it is. Just shows you how impractical and dependent the countries of Eastern Europe are. That's my initial point.

(2017 Jan 09 18:23)Mustapaita Wrote:  So far Estonia has become more Estonian ethnically during EU times. But sure they're not happy with the direction the EU is going, they just don't see an alternative. Who/what else is going to give them security guarantees? And a federation need not be the antithesis of an ethnostate. Theoretically it is entirely possible for Estonia to remain (and become even more) Estonian as a member state in the EU.

Estonia is lucky to be small and irrelevant enough, so the degeneracy spreads slower. Estonia became more Estonian because Russians moved away from there, I don't see how the EU influences that process. On the other hand, a lot of ethnic Estonians go to Finland and other EU countries for better work, resulting in demographic problems.

I know Estonia's economy is doing remarkably good, but I think the EU has outlived its usefulness for them, if it ever had any.

The EU is not intended as a federation. The Kalergi plan sees it as an abolition of nation states.

"Whoever says that he "belongs to his time" is only saying that he agrees with the largest number of fools at that moment." - Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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2017 Jan 09 19:04
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RE: 91% of Estonians support idea of ethnostate
(2017 Jan 09 19:04)Temnozor Wrote:  Neutrality. Unless you believe Russia would invade Estonia for some reason, but I do not take this seriously.

Neither do I. But I don't take the prospect of neutrality seriously either at this time. There is no such thing for Estonia. Neutrality would mean being under Russian influence and for obvious reasons they do not want that.

Quote:Just shows you how impractical and dependent the countries of Eastern Europe are. That's my initial point.

Which is why EU-membership is practical for Estonia, considering the choices.

Quote:Estonia is lucky to be small and irrelevant enough, so the degeneracy spreads slower. Estonia became more Estonian because Russians moved away from there, I don't see how the EU influences that process. On the other hand, a lot of ethnic Estonians go to Finland and other EU countries for better work, resulting in demographic problems.

I was not attributing it to the EU, simply demonstrating that so far the EU has not been at odds with an Estonian "ethnostate".

Quote: I know Estonia's economy is doing remarkably good, but I think the EU has outlived its usefulness for them, if it ever had any.

Then we need an alternative to the EU. At the present time, it does not exist.

Quote: The EU is not intended as a federation. The Kalergi plan sees it as an abolition of nation states.

Whatever the intention of the people who dreamed it up nearly a century ago does not mean that that is what it must become. IF Europeans decide to take a different direction, Kalergi's ghost isn't going to stop them.

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2017 Jan 09 21:02
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RE: 91% of Estonians support idea of ethnostate
(2017 Jan 09 21:02)Mustapaita Wrote:  Neither do I. But I don't take the prospect of neutrality seriously either at this time. There is no such thing for Estonia. Neutrality would mean being under Russian influence and for obvious reasons they do not want that.

How would the Russian influence manifest itself? Serious question, I want to know what they are panicked about. I exclude military threats.

(2017 Jan 09 21:02)Mustapaita Wrote:  Which is why EU-membership is practical for Estonia, considering the choices.

What prevents the Eastern Europeans from creating an alternative regional union? Corruption and dependence on Brussels. They all opted for this instead of pursuing a more sovereign course, so they will have to take the blame for their decisions.

(2017 Jan 09 21:02)Mustapaita Wrote:  I was not attributing it to the EU, simply demonstrating that so far the EU has not been at odds with an Estonian "ethnostate".

Right, but this is a time bomb. The EU is already trying to undermine Poland, they will also come for Estonia when they feel they need to. Also, being in the EU opens you up to influence from Cultural Marxist NGOs – they are working heavily in Eastern Europe.

(2017 Jan 09 21:02)Mustapaita Wrote:  Then we need an alternative to the EU. At the present time, it does not exist.

Join! Big Grin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasian_Economic_Union

Quote:Whatever the intention of the people who dreamed it up nearly a century ago does not mean that that is what it must become. IF Europeans decide to take a different direction, Kalergi's ghost isn't going to stop them.

Sure, but the institution itself is corrupt and oligarchic. Not worth to reform what's more easily abolished.

"Whoever says that he "belongs to his time" is only saying that he agrees with the largest number of fools at that moment." - Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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2017 Jan 09 21:41
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